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Print Page Chess Computer Community
    General Category => Discussions about Chess Computers => Message started by: Dick Schneiders on March 17, 2005, 03:45AM
	

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Title: Mephisto Polgar levels similar to other modules?
Post by: Dick Schneiders on March 17, 2005, 03:45AM

As a follow-up question to my earlier one on the Mephisto Exclusive modules, do the various modules have similar level options? Or are most of them unique in these sorts of choices?

I really like the system of choices of levels on the Polgar. I especially am enjoying the levels where you can adjust the playing strength to certain ELO's. There are two types of these, one that is 40 moves in 2 hours and one that is 30 minutes for each side. Does anybody have a feel as to these levels with ELO's to see if they are very accurate? I doubt that they are, because I am currently beating it, in close games, at the ELO level of 1400 in the 30 minutes games.

The module has an ELO calculation *for the human player*, also. The manual claims that the module "has the official formula from FIDE in its memory" and it can rate our games in ELO. This can't be an accurate (oops!)essment, can it?

I have never played in any club or tournament, so have no clue as to what my ELO might be. Just curious if the Polgar would come close.

Dick Schneiders


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Title: Re:Mephisto Polgar levels similar to other modules?
Post by: Ismenio on March 17, 2005, 02:19PM

Dick, I can't really answer your question but here's another one for you: do you have the manual for that? I'm curious to see if it has any technical details, CPU, Programmer, ROM, RAM, etc.

Ismenio


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Title: Re:Mephisto Polgar levels similar to other modules?
Post by: Dick Schneiders on March 17, 2005, 03:17PM

[quote author=Ismenio link=board=1;threadid=108;start=0#msg703 date=1111097976]
Dick, I can't really answer your question but here's another one for you: do you have the manual for that? I'm curious to see if it has any technical details, CPU, Programmer, ROM, RAM, etc.

Ismenio
[/quote]

Ismenio,

Yes, the manual for the Polgar module is one that I purchased from Cl(oops!)ic Chess and Games, and I was surprised that I actually got an original manual, and not a photocopy.

The manual is very detailed, both in German and English, but there is no mention of any of the stuff you are asking about.

Sorry,

Dick Schneiders


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Title: Re:Mephisto Polgar levels similar to other modules?
Post by: Mike Watters on March 17, 2005, 04:17PM

[quote author=Dick Schneiders link=board=1;threadid=108;start=0#msg691 date=1111059921]
As a follow-up question to my earlier one on the Mephisto Exclusive modules, do the various modules have similar level options? Or are most of them unique in these sorts of choices?

I really like the system of choices of levels on the Polgar. I especially am enjoying the levels where you can adjust the playing strength to certain ELO's. There are two types of these, one that is 40 moves in 2 hours and one that is 30 minutes for each side. Does anybody have a feel as to these levels with ELO's to see if they are very accurate? I doubt that they are, because I am currently beating it, in close games, at the ELO level of 1400 in the 30 minutes games.

The module has an ELO calculation *for the human player*, also. The manual claims that the module "has the official formula from FIDE in its memory" and it can rate our games in ELO. This can't be an accurate (oops!)essment, can it?

I have never played in any club or tournament, so have no clue as to what my ELO might be. Just curious if the Polgar would come close.

Dick Schneiders
[/quote]Dick

I have not got around to using the Polgar Elo calculating function yet. But I will because it sounds an interesting exercise.

You would need to play quite a few games before it settles down to a reasonably reliable estimate , in the Polgar's terms. Bearing in mind that chess computer ratings have subsided a fair way since the Polgar was first sold in 1990 you would have to deduct some Elo points from the result.

To give you an idea "Selective Search" rated the Polgar 10MHz at 2166 Elo in October 1990. In January 2005 "Selective Search" rated it at 2046. So the Polgar has probably got an out of date estimate of its own ability against which to measure yours.

But rather than us guessing Ed Schroder often answers questions on CCC. You could ask the man himself.

Rebel regards
Mike


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Title: Re:Mephisto Polgar levels similar to other modules?
Post by: Dick Schneiders on March 17, 2005, 06:28PM

[quote author=Ismenio link=board=1;threadid=108;start=0#msg703 date=1111097976]
Dick, I can't really answer your question but here's another one for you: do you have the manual for that? I'm curious to see if it has any technical details, CPU, Programmer, ROM, RAM, etc.

Ismenio
[/quote]

Ismenio,

According to Kurt's site, the programmer (as Mike says) is Ed Schroder. The CPU is a 6502 at either 5 or 10 MHz. I think it is an 8 bit processor.

I don't know what this all means, though. :-[

Dick Schneiders


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Title: Re:Mephisto Polgar levels similar to other modules?
Post by: _hard on March 18, 2005, 12:25AM

Dick,

Polgars levels are similar to it's big brothers RISC I and RISC II.

The Polgar has the same cpu (6502) like nearby every chess computer from the mid 80th and many home computers like Commodore C64 or Apple II. The ROM (where the opening book and program is stored) is 64 KByte, the RAM has 8 KByte. The 10 MHz module version is unique in the "feature" that it was sold only complete with the board. There are some modifications (power regulator) inside, which don't allow using the module in other boards or vice versa.

Viele Grüße,
Bernhard


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Title: Re:Mephisto Polgar levels similar to other modules?
Post by: alainza on March 18, 2005, 04:07AM

10 MHz for the 6502 is impressive : the basic Apple II ran at 1 MHz (you could find accelerator cards at 3.6MHZ), and I read that the 6502 at 5 MHz of the Par Excellence was one of the first Overclockings.

Best,
Alain


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Title: Re:Mephisto Polgar levels similar to other modules?
Post by: Dick Schneiders on March 18, 2005, 05:14AM

[quote author=_hard link=board=1;threadid=108;start=0#msg714 date=1111134358]
The 10 MHz module version is unique in the "feature" that it was sold only complete with the board. There are some modifications (power regulator) inside, which don't allow using the module in other boards or vice versa.

Viele Grüße,
Bernhard
[/quote]

Bernhard,

Thanks for this information. I want to be certain I understand this. By "vice versa", do you mean that I will not be able to use other Mephisto modules in my Exclusive board, because it came with the 10 MHz Polgar?

I have not yet been *too* tempted by sales of other modules, but that will probably change in the future. I certainly don't want to purchase a 2nd Exclusive board so that I can use them, though.

Thanks,

Dick Schneiders


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Title: Re:Mephisto Polgar levels similar to other modules?
Post by: _hard on March 18, 2005, 08:49AM

Dick,

on 1111151695, Dick Schneiders wrote:

By "vice versa", do you mean that I will not be able to use other Mephisto modules in my Exclusive board, because it came with the 10 MHz Polgar?

that's right. It is the H&G statement from 1990. IIRC the 6502 cpu needed a little bit higher voltage than 5 V to run at 10 MHz stabil. Perhaps 5.5 or 5.8 V. So other modules _may_ work too, but I would not give it a try.

Edit: do you have the _original_ Polgar 10 MHz (named on the module cover) or a private _tuned_ Polgar 5 MHz? What I have written is only for the original.

Dick, the better alternative to a second Exclusive boad is the bigger Muenchen (Munich) board! Size does sometimes matter. :)

Viele Grüße,
Bernhard


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Title: Re:Mephisto Polgar levels similar to other modules?
Post by: Dick Schneiders on March 18, 2005, 09:05AM

[quote author=_hard link=board=1;threadid=108;start=0#msg731 date=1111164595]
Dick,
[quote author=Dick Schneiders link=board=1;threadid=108;start=0#msg723 date=1111151695]
By "vice versa", do you mean that I will not be able to use other Mephisto modules in my Exclusive board, because it came with the 10 MHz Polgar?
[/quote]
that's right. It is the H&G statement from 1990. IIRC the 6502 cpu needed a little bit higher voltage than 5 V to run at 10 MHz stabil. Perhaps 5.5 or 5.8 V. So other modules _may_ work too, but I would not give it a try.

Edit: do you have the _original_ Polgar 10 MHz (named on the module cover) or a private _tuned_ Polgar 5 MHz? What I have written is only for the original.

Dick, the better alternative to a second Exclusive boad is the bigger Muenchen (Munich) board! Size does sometimes matter. :)

Viele Grüße,
Bernhard


[/quote]

Bernhard,

Thanks for the clarification. Your English is excellent, and that is what I understood from your initial comments. I needed to be certain, as this is all so new to me.

My Polgar 10MHz is one of the original ones, and is stated 10MHz on the module.

I would love to have a Muenchen board, but the only ones I see for sale are in Europe. There are currently some Muenchen pieces for sale on eBay, and I am tempted to buy them hoping that someday I might be able to make a great deal on the board, by itself.

See how crazy this new hobby is making me! ;D

Dick Schneiders


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Title: Re:Mephisto Polgar levels similar to other modules?
Post by: Mike Watters on March 18, 2005, 02:09PM

[quote author=_hard link=board=1;threadid=108;start=0#msg731 date=1111164595]
Dick,
[quote author=Dick Schneiders link=board=1;threadid=108;start=0#msg723 date=1111151695]
By "vice versa", do you mean that I will not be able to use other Mephisto modules in my Exclusive board, because it came with the 10 MHz Polgar?
[/quote]
that's right. It is the H&G statement from 1990. IIRC the 6502 cpu needed a little bit higher voltage than 5 V to run at 10 MHz stabil. Perhaps 5.5 or 5.8 V. So other modules _may_ work too, but I would not give it a try.

Edit: do you have the _original_ Polgar 10 MHz (named on the module cover) or a private _tuned_ Polgar 5 MHz? What I have written is only for the original.

Dick, the better alternative to a second Exclusive boad is the bigger Muenchen (Munich) board! Size does sometimes matter. :)

Viele Grüße,
Bernhard


[/quote]Bernhard

Have you seen any follow up to this H&G 1990 statement such as owners of the Polgar 10 MHz discussing the limitations and what modules might be used.

I feel a bit bad about this because I praised the Polgar modules and Exclusive board to Dick before he bought it. Of course I did not know anything about the limitations.

All the best
Mike


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Title: Re:Mephisto Polgar levels similar to other modules?
Post by: _hard on March 19, 2005, 12:07AM

Mike,

_only_ the 10 MHz Polgar is very special in this case (and btw [B]absolute worth to collect!). Some weeks ago I baught a Monte Carlo IV LE 8 MHz from the collector Jan Stroeher. I was also interested in his 10 MHz Polgar and he mailed me all informations. So most of my writing about this "feature" depends on Jans knowledge.

Viele Grüße,
Bernhard


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Title: Re:Mephisto Polgar levels similar to other modules?
Post by: snaggs on March 19, 2005, 01:44AM

Any links to the picture of a Muenchen board? Are they much bigger?

Daniel.


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Title: Re:Mephisto Polgar levels similar to other modules?
Post by: Dick Schneiders on March 19, 2005, 04:49AM

[quote author=Mike Watters link=board=1;threadid=108;start=0#msg745 date=1111183742]
Have you seen any follow up to this H&G 1990 statement such as owners of the Polgar 10 MHz discussing the limitations and what modules might be used.

I feel a bit bad about this because I praised the Polgar modules and Exclusive board to Dick before he bought it. Of course I did not know anything about the limitations.

All the best
Mike
[/quote]

Mike,

As I related in my email to you, this really is not a problem or bother for me. I like the Polgar modules features a lot. I appreciate very much the advice and help you gave me on the Mephisto modules and boards. Also, this gives me even more incentive to purchase a Munich board.

Anybody have a spare Munich board and pieces they would like to sell? From any country - I know they would be expensive to ship, but it would be worth it.

Dick Schneiders



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