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Print Page Chess Computer Community
    General Category => Discussions about Chess Computers => Message started by: Jon on February 11, 2007, 03:13PM
	

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Title: Novag Jade
Post by: Jon on February 11, 2007, 03:13PM

I'm moving house and found an old novag jade machine in it's box. Not checked if it still works - is it worth anything or shall I just throw it out?


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Title: Re:Novag Jade
Post by: Overtom on February 11, 2007, 05:21PM

[quote author=Jon link=board=1;threadid=1134;start=0#msg8177 date=1171235613]
I'm moving house and found an old novag jade machine in it's box. Not checked if it still works - is it worth anything or shall I just throw it out?
[/quote]
The Jade II which I know is a strong travel computer of about the same playing strength as the Mephisto Miami. If it is the Jade II and it works properly, I think it could fetch anything between about 50 and 100 dollars. I heard the Jade (without the number II) would be worth somewhat less.

If it doesn't work, you could try to repair it yourself. You can imagine it won't be easy to find somebody who will reapir an object that's worth no more than a hundred dollars.

Best regards,

tom


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Title: Re:Novag Jade
Post by: Larry71 on February 11, 2007, 09:17PM

According to the Wiki rating list, the Jade is rated at 1710
and the Jade II at 1900. Either way, you would be silly to
just throw it out. You say it's still in it's box. (oops!)uming the
owner's manual is there and intact, and the thing does
actually work, it's well worth giving it a cleanup with a damp
cloth to present it well and put it on ebay, IMO.
all the best
Larry


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Title: Re:Novag Jade
Post by: Robert Weck on February 12, 2007, 04:29AM

[quote author=Jon link=board=1;threadid=1134;start=0#msg8177 date=1171235613]
I'm moving house and found an old novag jade machine in it's box. Not checked if it still works - is it worth anything or shall I just throw it out?
[/quote]
If you want to sell it, i am interested; i would like to find out, if it is really that much weaker than the Jade II!


best regards,
Robert


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Title: Re:Novag Jade
Post by: bobosse on February 12, 2007, 04:59AM

[quote author=Robert Weck link=board=1;threadid=1134;start=0#msg8186 date=1171283373]
[quote author=Jon link=board=1;threadid=1134;start=0#msg8177 date=1171235613]
I'm moving house and found an old novag jade machine in it's box. Not checked if it still works - is it worth anything or shall I just throw it out?
[/quote]
If you want to sell it, i am interested; i would like to find out, if it is really that much weaker than the Jade II!


best regards,
Robert

[/quote]
Correct me if I am wrong but for me the Jade is the same software as the ruby and the zircon (with different packages).
It's a good software, especially for human players - not so much weaker than the jade II.


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Title: Re:Novag Jade
Post by: Robert Weck on February 12, 2007, 05:36AM

[quote author=bobosse link=board=1;threadid=1134;start=0#msg8187 date=1171285163]
Correct me if I am wrong but for me the Jade is the same software as the ruby and the zircon (with different packages).
It's a good software, especially for human players - not so much weaker than the jade II.
[/quote]
That's the question: if it is the same program as in Jade II/Zircon II/Obsidian/Emerald/Amber and so on, then it should be much stronger than just 1710 ELO!

Maybe it just has not been thoroughly tested...

If Jon could post some games here (with the used level and the evaluation at some moves), then this would help also!

I also believe, that Jade and Jade II are nearly identical, but you never know...


Robert


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Title: Re:Novag Jade
Post by: bobosse on February 12, 2007, 08:15AM


on 1171285163]
Correct me if I am wrong but for me the Jade is the same software as the ruby and the zircon (with different packages).
It's a good software, especially for human players - not so much weaker than the jade II.
[/quote, Robert Weck link=board=1;threadid=1134;start=0#msg8190 date=1171287375]
[quote author=bobosse wrote
:

That's the question: if it is the same program as in Jade II/Zircon II/Obsidian/Emerald/Amber and so on, then it should be much stronger than just 1710 ELO!

Maybe it just has not been thoroughly tested...

If Jon could post some games here (with the used level and the evaluation at some moves), then this would help also!

I also believe, that Jade and Jade II are nearly identical, but you never know...


Robert


Sorry I was probably not clear: The Jade is the same as the Zircon. It runs on a 20MHz processor and was produced around 1995. It has 32K ROM size.

Later came an enhanced release called Jade II and also Zircon II. It runs on a 26,6 MHz but it is also a stronger software (around 200 elo more). It has also 32K ROM Size (and no hashtable).

(see http://alain.zanchetta.free.fr/docs/Novag/NovagRubyFR.pdf (http://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/index.php/Wiki-Elo-Liste]http://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/index.php/Wiki-Elo-Liste [/url] )

The curious point is about the ruby. In the wikipedia page above and many other web sources, it's written that the ruby is running at 10 MHz (but seems to have an elo evaluation similar to the zircon II). But in my user guide, (the same available here: [url=http://alain.zanchetta.free.fr/docs/Novag/NovagRubyFR.pdf) ) it is written page 24: 20 MHz.
So there is a mistake somewhere.


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Title: Re:Novag Jade
Post by: Robert Weck on February 13, 2007, 12:08AM

[quote author=bobosse link=board=1;threadid=1134;start=0#msg8192 date=1171296911]
Sorry I was probably not clear: The Jade is the same as the Zircon. It runs on a 20MHz processor and was produced around 1995. It has 32K ROM size.
Later came an enhanced release called Jade II and also Zircon II. It runs on a 26,6 MHz but it is also a stronger software (around 200 elo more). It has also 32K ROM Size (and no hashtable).

[/quote]
I don't think, that the Jade II is running with 26,6 MHz; my info is 20 MHz. It is definitely about 10-20% slower than the Emerald cl(oops!)ic plus with its 26,6 MHz (i tested this with several BT positions)

Ok, this could also be caused by an older (and therefore slower) H8-CPU...

And Novag also claims only 2241 USCF-ELO for the Zircon II, which is much less than the advertised 2294 USCF-ELO for the ECP.

Maybe i should open my Jade II and have a look inside...
[quote]
(see http://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/index.php/Wiki-Elo-Liste (http://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/index.php/Wiki-Elo-Liste) )

The curious point is about the ruby. In the wikipedia page above and many other web sources, it's written that the ruby is running at 10 MHz (but seems to have an elo evaluation similar to the zircon II). But in my user guide, (the same available here: http://alain.zanchetta.free.fr/docs/Novag/NovagRubyFR.pdf (http://alain.zanchetta.free.fr/docs/Novag/NovagRubyFR.pdf) ) it is written page 24: 20 MHz.
So there is a mistake somewhere.
[/quote]
I would say, the mistake is in the Wiki. In this case, i would trust the manual!
;)

For sure there are many mistakes in the Wiki and we all should help to correct them!


best regards,
Robert


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Title: Re:Novag Jade
Post by: Robert Weck on February 16, 2007, 01:42AM

Quoting myself...

[quote author=Robert Weck link=board=1;threadid=1134;start=0#msg8200 date=1171354131]
I don't think, that the Jade II is running with 26,6 MHz; my info is 20 MHz. It is definitely about 10-20% slower than the Emerald cl(oops!)ic plus with its 26,6 MHz (i tested this with several BT positions)
[/quote]
In the "Schachcomputer Katalog 1996" the Jade II/Zircon II is listed with 20 MHz. I opened my Jade II, but on the quartz i could not see anything printed! (was a cylindrical one, never seen before! but there was nothing else on the board, which could be a quartz)

In the 1995 issue of this catalog Jade I, Zircon I, Ruby and Emerald are all listed with 20 MHz and are stated as identical (4 identical models? strange...)

Ok, the casings are different, but nevertheless...


Maybe this thread is of interest for you:

http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=97373#97373


best regards,
Robert


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Title: Re:Novag Jade
Post by: Jon on March 1, 2007, 01:39AM

I've moved and got a chance to pop some batteries in the Jade last night. It worked fine (has all the pieces and all the squares worked and it has a manual), one of the displays is a bit messed up but I could see enough to get by.

The little beeps brought back some memories but I don't think I'll play it again, so it's free (well p&p) to a good home. I'm near London, England.

Jon


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Title: Re:Novag Jade
Post by: Robert Weck on March 1, 2007, 04:48AM

[quote author=Jon link=board=1;threadid=1134;start=0#msg8300 date=1172741994]
I've moved and got a chance to pop some batteries in the Jade last night. It worked fine (has all the pieces and all the squares worked and it has a manual), one of the displays is a bit messed up but I could see enough to get by.

The little beeps brought back some memories but I don't think I'll play it again, so it's free (well p&p) to a good home. I'm near London, England.

Jon

[/quote]
May i apply for it? ;)


Robert


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Title: Re:Novag Jade
Post by: Jon on March 2, 2007, 07:25AM

Sure you can - I sent you a message...


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Title: Re:Novag Jade
Post by: Robert Weck on March 13, 2007, 03:28AM

Hello Jon,

[quote author=Jon link=board=1;threadid=1134;start=0#msg8318 date=1172849132]
Sure you can - I sent you a message...
[/quote]
the Jade arrived yesterday; thank you very much for it! (money for postage is on the way)

The package/box was in very good shape (better than most Ebay-packages i get)

I was eager to compare it to my Jade II (as the case and buttons are (nearly!) identical. And to my surprise i found, that the Jade seems to be completely different!

The opening book is bigger in the Jade (12.000 to 8.900(?)) than the other Novag's from this series (Jade II/Emerald cl(oops!)ic plus/Turquoise/Amber/Obsidian/Star Ruby)

And despite they both have 20 MHz, it seems to be about 50% slower: on level FD 8 (fixed depth 8) after 1.h3 d5 2.h4 it took 9 mins for the answer (Jade II needs about 6'45")

And when i continued the game (played it syncroniously on my Jade II too) it played totally different than the J II! (evaluations looked also different (was not good to read on the messed up-display))

I had not enough time to play a complete game, but i will try to check, if it also differs in strength.

A very interesting machine!


thank you very much for it!

Robert



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