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Print Page Chess Computer Community
    General Category => Discussions about Chess Computers => Message started by: Overtom on March 30, 2008, 04:12AM
	

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Title: Disappointing Obsidian
Post by: Overtom on March 30, 2008, 04:12AM

Now that the program that makes the files for the overtom site (http://overtom.nl/chescom/Engintro.html) has been changed in such a way that several games can be shown with any given computer, I started playing and adding new games.

After an earlier round of games in which e2-e4 was played at 10 seconds/move against Fritz-one-ply, I now tried d2-d4 at 60 seconds/move against Fritz-5-ply.

An unexpected result came about with the Novag Obsidian. I set the level to C8 (on the display: At8), or an average time of 60 seconds/move.

had each won one game against Fritz-5-ply (and also lost one), I expected Obsidian to have little trouble defeating Fritz. But I was utterly surprised to see that Obsidian lost both games it played.

One thing that struck me is that Obsidian seemed to consume only a small portion of the sixty seconds it had at its disposal. Which made me wonder if anybody else has the experience that Obsidian set to level C8 (At8) uses far less than the advertized sixty seconds a move. And why should it play worse than the other two computers?

By the way, I also tried to play one game between Fritz-5-ply and Obsidian at a fixed-time level (F7: Ft15). Here Obsidian did indeed use more time, but was still shamefully defeated.

With wondering regards,

tom


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Title: Re:Disappointing Obsidian
Post by: Robert Weck on March 30, 2008, 06:52AM

Hello Tom,

[quote author=Overtom link=board=1;threadid=1564;start=0#msg10941 date=1206875542]
Now that the program that makes the files for the overtom site (http://overtom.nl/chescom/Engintro.html) has been changed in such a way that several games can be shown with any given computer, I started playing and adding new games.

After an earlier round of games in which e2-e4 was played at 10 seconds/move against Fritz-one-ply, I now tried d2-d4 at 60 seconds/move against Fritz-5-ply.

An unexpected result came about with the Novag Obsidian. I set the level to C8 (on the display: At8), or an average time of 60 seconds/move.



After both the Sphinx Concerto (http://overtom.nl/chescom/NovPrim.html]Novag Primo[/url] and [url=http://overtom.nl/chescom/CXGConc.html) had each won one game against Fritz-5-ply (and also lost one), I expected Obsidian to have little trouble defeating Fritz. But I was utterly surprised to see that Obsidian lost both games it played.

One thing that struck me is that Obsidian seemed to consume only a small portion of the sixty seconds it had at its disposal. Which made me wonder if anybody else has the experience that Obsidian set to level C8 (At8) uses far less than the advertized sixty seconds a move.
[/quote]
of course, yes; that's the known bug of the Emerald cl(oops!)ic plus/Amber/Turquoise program-series in the AT-levels!

After a few (~10-15) moves the computer starts to use less time for every move; after about 30 moves it uses just ~3 seconds even on the highest AT-levels.

The Citrine is the only Novag with this program, where this bug has been corrected!

For example, you should use 40moves/40min for 60secs avg. games instead.


Robert

P.S.: How could you forget this? i wrote about this bug here in the forum so often... ;)


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Title: Re:Disappointing Obsidian
Post by: Overtom on March 31, 2008, 02:00AM

yes now that you mention it, Robert, I had indeed seen something about Novag machines with a bug. But as long as it doesn't concern machines that are part of the collection one tends to overlook such matters (at least I do ::)).

But the games (http://overtom.nl/chescom/EngNovObs.html) played at an average time of 60 seconds/move have now been replaced by games at tournament level with a remark about the reason why.

Thanks for your help! With best regards,

tom


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Title: Re:Disappointing Obsidian
Post by: Robert Weck on March 31, 2008, 04:02AM

[quote author=Overtom link=board=1;threadid=1564;start=0#msg10947 date=1206954033]
yes now that you mention it, Robert, I had indeed seen something about Novag machines with a bug. But as long as it doesn't concern machines that are part of the collection one tends to overlook such matters (at least I do ::)).
[/quote]
Ok, i understand...

And i must admit, that sometimes i forget it too! One month ago i started a 30s avg. game on my Amber and always thought: "Wasn't there something important to remember?" After 5 moves i remembered... ;D


Robert


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Title: Re:Disappointing Obsidian
Post by: ricard60 on June 1, 2008, 08:28AM

I have a citrine and i think this bug was fixed but in the manual say that the average time level (AT ) the machine tends to play faster at the end of the game and does not use all the time for each move. I test this and it is true. So the stronger levels fo citrine are the tournament lelvels (TR) and the sudden death levels (SD). For me was a surprise that citrine came up with a 6th place in the strong Paris tournament playing in its weak AT level. I thought it would be last.

weak AT levels regards
Ricardo



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