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Print Page Chess Computer Community
    General Category => Discussions about Chess Computers => Message started by: Mike Watters on April 11, 2008, 02:41AM
	

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Title: Rare Chess Computers - Website
Post by: Mike Watters on April 11, 2008, 02:41AM

Hi All

I have been working away at the Rare section of the website and it is just about finished now. If you do not know about it, or only saw it in the early stages, it can be found here - http://www.chesscomputeruk.com/html/rare.html

The Scisys section has also been finished -
http://www.chesscomputeruk.com/html/scisys_chess_computers_1979-19.html

Any additional information gratefully received.

All the best
Mike


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Title: Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
Post by: Jose on April 11, 2008, 05:39AM

Hi Mike,
that is a great work! Congrat!
And i see i must learn much more about rare computers. Go on - i will do the link to my favorites...
Best José


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Title: Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
Post by: Grailmaster on April 11, 2008, 06:46AM

Wow. Great section you made there. A fascinating read ! :)

One addendum: You can change the CC1 owner list from:

20137 Josef Zwinger (Germany) > “surak_de”

to

20137 Axel Schumacher

;D

Cheers,
Axel


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Title: Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
Post by: Chris on April 11, 2008, 09:41AM

Hi Mike :)

This is an excellent addition with some lovely pictures and fascinating commentatry. A great resource - it must have taken ages!

Many thanks


Chris


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Title: Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
Post by: spacious_mind on April 11, 2008, 09:52AM

[quote author=Mike Watters link=board=1;threadid=1580;start=0#msg11012 date=1207906910]
Hi All

I have been working away at the Rare section of the website and it is just about finished now. If you do not know about it, or only saw it in the early stages, it can be found here - http://www.chesscomputeruk.com/html/rare.html

The Scisys section has also been finished -
http://www.chesscomputeruk.com/html/scisys_chess_computers_1979-19.html

Any additional information gratefully received.

All the best
Mike
[/quote]

Wow Mike!

Excellent work and presentation with the rare Computers and the Scisys page. Thanks a lot for sharing all this valuable information :)

All the best

Nick


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Title: Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
Post by: Jose on April 11, 2008, 09:54AM

[quote author=Grailmaster link=board=1;threadid=1580;start=0#msg11014 date=1207921602]
Wow. Great section you made there. A fascinating read ! :)

One addendum: You can change the CC1 owner list from:

20137 Josef Zwinger (Germany) > “surak_de”

to

20137 Axel Schumacher

;D

Cheers,
Axel
[/quote]

I am sure Axel, Mike has change all datas at 17.06.2007.
Big Brother wachting CC1 Regards
José


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Title: Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
Post by: Tom on April 11, 2008, 10:21AM

Great sites. I immediately added them to my favourites! When I saw the Chess Champion Super System III again I got really touched inside, because it was my first chess computer I really loved! I've always owned only few chess computers, but loved them like friends. I remember when I won against the CCSSIII I felt like little Bobby must have felt when he defeated his opponents at age 12 ;). Bobby was the reason why I bought this device then. I wanted to get into chess (at least a litte) in order to understand Bobby's games as far as I could understand them. Yes, your sites are really worth seeing.


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Title: Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
Post by: Brian on April 11, 2008, 09:25PM

Hi Mike,

Great read I enjoyed it a lot.


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Title: Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
Post by: alainza on April 11, 2008, 10:59PM

Hi Mike,

very interesting section, congratulations !!

best regards,
Alain


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Title: Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
Post by: Carterdickson on April 11, 2008, 11:44PM

Nice done, Mike.
In my favourites too.

Etienne.


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Title: Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
Post by: Mike Watters on April 12, 2008, 01:17AM

Hi Guys

Many thanks for the encouraging comments.

Also thanks for the info Axel. List amended. Your cover is blown. ;D

José for a small fee I could move the Courier V to the top of the rare list and mention that there are only two (or is it three ???) examples known worldwide. A good day for eBaywatching. 8)

Best regards all
Mike


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Title: Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
Post by: Jose on April 12, 2008, 07:29AM

[quote author=Mike Watters link=board=1;threadid=1580;start=0#msg11030 date=1207988276]
Hi Guys

Many thanks for the encouraging comments.

Also thanks for the info Axel. List amended. Your cover is blown. ;D

José for a small fee I could move the Courier V to the top of the rare list and mention that there are only two (or is it three ???) examples known worldwide. A good day for eBaywatching. 8)

Best regards all
Mike


[/quote]

Hi Mike,

three is the correct number.
Thanks for your offer to set it on top your great list, but i think it is okay - it does not matter. ;)

Watching Ebay Regards
José


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Title: Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
Post by: Endspielgott on April 13, 2008, 12:56PM

Great site Mike!

Just one thing: Is the Diablo in the "rare" section because of the Fidelity pieces ? ;D

Christian


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Title: Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
Post by: Mike Watters on April 14, 2008, 03:26AM

[quote author=Endspielgott link=board=1;threadid=1580;start=0#msg11034 date=1208116618]
Great site Mike!

Just one thing: Is the Diablo in the "rare" section because of the Fidelity pieces ? ;D

Christian
[/quote]

Christian

You miss nothing !!
Just for you I will put the correct pieces with it. But like you say it is not so rare now. :(

http://www.chesscomputeruk.com/html/novag_diablo.html (http://www.chesscomputeruk.com/html/novag_diablo.html)

How was Klingenberg? Did you win?

All the best
Mike


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Title: Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
Post by: Sargon on April 15, 2008, 09:14AM

Hello All,

Damm ;D i have bought a Diablo 68000 for just only 100 euro wich was defect, but Arno repaired it for 60 euro.
So 160 euro is not a bad price for a compleet Diablo i think.
Mine collection is now about 80 a 90 computers ,wich i can say very wanted and rare comp, are there in mine collection.
Mostly buyed by luck for a cheap price, like a Super 9 for 15 euro ;) Sphinx 40 80 euro ,and so on
Keep on going here on this site.
I visit here many times, but not always writing here

Kind Regards,Hans van Mierlo


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Title: Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
Post by: Endspielgott on April 19, 2008, 11:09PM

[quote author=Mike Watters link=board=1;threadid=1580;start=0#msg11037 date=1208168782]

How was Klingenberg? Did you win?

All the best
Mike
[/quote]

Hi Mike,

Klingenberg was hard because I arrived friday evening which was a mistake. I had to play chess with the Austrian Fraction just ´till 3:00 a.m.
Drank a lot of beer too.
Imagine what I looked like the next morning ;D
And there was the 100 moves game between my Elegance and the Excellence :P

The Elegance did well with 3 wins and 2 losses, 2 draw.
He produced entertaining games.

And finally I met a lot of nice people.

Looking forward to Paris now!

When will be the first dedicated tournament on British soil? 8)

All the best,

Christian


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Title: Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
Post by: Mike Watters on April 24, 2008, 04:45AM

[quote author=Endspielgott link=board=1;threadid=1580;start=0#msg11049 date=1208671766]
[size=2]Looking forward to Paris now!

When will be the first dedicated tournament on British soil? 8)

All the best,

Christian[/size]
[/quote]
Christian it has taken thirty years for the British to get around to organising a dedicated tournament, with no sign of a breakthrough yet. :(

The V.9 will have it's work cut out in Paris. Hope you have a good time but stay off the beer, it sounds like you are getting too old for late nights now. ;D

All the very best
Mike


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Title: Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
Post by: gaetanpaca on May 1, 2008, 08:36AM

Hello Mike,

Great site!!
You can change "gaetanpaca”(France)(27/03/08) from CC1 list "Ebay sales with serial numbers unknown " to 2367 Gaëtan Vignola (France)

Best regards

Gaëtan


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Title: Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
Post by: Mike Watters on May 2, 2008, 12:35AM

Hello Gaëtan

Many thanks for the information.
The list is updated. :)

It looked a nice early one on the Ebay auction. Is there anything on it to indicate the date it was manufactured or first sold?

All the best
Mike


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Title: Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
Post by: gaetanpaca on May 2, 2008, 06:51AM

Hello Mike,

Sorry, nothing on it indicate a date .

Best regards.
Gaëtan


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Title: Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
Post by: gaetanpaca on May 2, 2008, 08:04AM

Hello Mike,

It seems that only one thousand chess challenger 1 have been built. In the list we can find serial numbers from 1002 to 36746 (I think the 852194 one is a mistake). 36746 less 1002 equal 35744 units ??
Do you have an explanation ?

Best regards

Gaëtan


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Title: Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
Post by: Mike Watters on May 2, 2008, 09:55AM

Hello Gaëtan

No explanation here. ???

As I say on the CC1 webpage(http://www.chesscomputeruk.com/html/fidelity_chess_challenger__cc1.html ) there was a debate about it on Kurt's Forum. Karsten Bauermeister (and others) tried to find the mathematical logic behind the serial numbers but was not able to at the time.

The 1000-2999 numbers look to be early ones, which is why I asked you about yours. Dick Schneiders (1171) had a very early one with plastic chess pieces, as seen on the box, and I think blue lettering on the instructions.

Perhaps with 37 serial numbers rather than the 14 they originally collected some clever person could now crack the code? :-\

Archaelogical regards
Mike


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Title: Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
Post by: spacious_mind on May 2, 2008, 03:51PM

Hi Mike,
Is it possible that they produced that many but when the recalls started they put a hold on selling more CC1 and refitted them with CC3? That might also explain the randomness of numbers because it might be unlikey that they shipped them to the stores in a sequential numbering order. Perhaps they shipped a few out to satisfy the early most demanding customers and then held back with shipping more. Does the numbering range fit into the sequences of later CC3's ?

Since this was a new product in the Market, I can easily imagine that they have to produce a lot in advance to meet the Stores Order books. For example Radioshack have what about 6000 Stores in USA? Only for Radioshack if that was their customer they might easily have received an Order for 30.000 units with down payments.

I don't think you just produce and hope to sell. You go out there and get your orders and then produce in order to hit all the stores at the same time.

The 1000 units might have only been an early Test to check customer reaction or even a "Knee Jerk" reaction,, which was more likely because of pressure from some more demanding bigger customers who threatenend them with cancelling all their orders unless they received a shipment immediately? Who knows ;D

I also doubt that they were any more sophisticated then just grabbing the nearest randomly stored boxes or pallets of a storeroom full of manufactured CC1's. If you stack a storeroom shelving system bottom to top and left to right and then only take pallets from the top or from the bottom what do you get with regards to a numbering sequence?

I do not think that the numbering sequence means a thing if you try to visualize a bigger picture due the the problems and PANIC! they faced because of knowing that you have a disaster in your hands. (See $75 upgrade offer printed on the CC1 manual).

I think CC1 was a manufacturing failure and they knew it! The competition was just months away.

Just a thought

Nick


on 1209747344, Mike Watters wrote:

Hello Gaëtan

No explanation here. ???

As I say on the CC1 webpage(http://www.chesscomputeruk.com/html/fidelity_chess_challenger__cc1.html ) there was a debate about it on Kurt's Forum. Karsten Bauermeister (and others) tried to find the mathematical logic behind the serial numbers but was not able to at the time.

The 1000-2999 numbers look to be early ones, which is why I asked you about yours. Dick Schneiders (1171) had a very early one with plastic chess pieces, as seen on the box, and I think blue lettering on the instructions.

Perhaps with 37 serial numbers rather than the 14 they originally collected some clever person could now crack the code? :-

Archaelogical regards
Mike


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Title: Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
Post by: Mike Watters on May 5, 2008, 03:28AM

[quote author=spacious_mind link=board=1;threadid=1580;start=0#msg11082 date=1209768696]
Hi Mike,
Is it possible that they produced that many but when the recalls started they put a hold on selling more CC1 and refitted them with CC3? That might also explain the randomness of numbers because it might be unlikey that they shipped them to the stores in a sequential numbering order. Perhaps they shipped a few out to satisfy the early most demanding customers and then held back with shipping more. Does the numbering range fit into the sequences of later CC3's ?

Since this was a new product in the Market, I can easily imagine that they have to produce a lot in advance to meet the Stores Order books. For example Radioshack have what about 6000 Stores in USA? Only for Radioshack if that was their customer they might easily have received an Order for 30.000 units with down payments.

I don't think you just produce and hope to sell. You go out there and get your orders and then produce in order to hit all the stores at the same time.

The 1000 units might have only been an early Test to check customer reaction or even a "Knee Jerk" reaction,, which was more likely because of pressure from some more demanding bigger customers who threatenend them with cancelling all their orders unless they received a shipment immediately? Who knows ;D

I also doubt that they were any more sophisticated then just grabbing the nearest randomly stored boxes or pallets of a storeroom full of manufactured CC1's. If you stack a storeroom shelving system bottom to top and left to right and then only take pallets from the top or from the bottom what do you get with regards to a numbering sequence?

I do not think that the numbering sequence means a thing if you try to visualize a bigger picture due the the problems and PANIC! they faced because of knowing that you have a disaster in your hands. (See $75 upgrade offer printed on the CC1 manual).

I think CC1 was a manufacturing failure and they knew it! The competition was just months away.

Just a thought

Nick

[/quote]
Hi Nick
IIRC there was no obvious pattern between the CC1s and CC3s.

Samole unveiled the CC1 at the Chicago Consumer Electronics Show in January 1977 and got lots of orders, but I am not sure that they were orders for large numbers, and of course Fidelity were not geared up to make chess computers yet. Some of the details are included in the Sid Samole story, a link for which can be found on my CC1 webpage - http://www.chesscomputeruk.com/html/fidelity_chess_challenger__cc1.html (http://www.chesscomputeruk.com/html/fidelity_chess_challenger__cc1.html)

On Ismenio's Fidelity page you can see photos of the CC1 exhibits at the Chess Museum in Miami which confirms again the 1000 total built number. See here - http://www.ismenio.com/fidelity.html (http://www.ismenio.com/fidelity.html)

Although we can look at a CC1 today and think of the components being worth only a few Dollars. I remember the days in the mid 1980s when I bought a 486 PC for £2,500. Hardware was very expensive back in those days and the hardware for a 1000 CC1s would have been a fairly big investment for a company like Fidelity were at the time.

Had some news from Arno the other day that he is getting around to my ones.

All the best
Mike


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Title: Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
Post by: spacious_mind on May 5, 2008, 09:54AM

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your reply.

A question! How many CC3's do you think were sold in 1977 and 1978?

Also when I refer to a Storeoom full of CC1's, might it not be possible that the casings and other parts where already produced (including Serial Tags) in large volumes from where ever they got them from, especially since the casing was re-used over and over again with CC3's and 10's? That makes me think of one large bulk shipment/order.

If I buy tags even today I receive much better prices if I buy them in large quantities.

Back then and today, you cannot sell to a Radio Shack or any other large store unless you can supply all their stores at the same time, therefore I do think that their expectations were higher then just the 1000 units indicated in reports.

It probably took 6-9 months back then to get the chips ordered and delivered so it was very likely that CC3 software was already developed when CC1 was launched. However the casings and other major parts where already available and at much lower prices. The Chips themselves may have cost a lot of money back then but the rest I don't think so.

I am just throwing out some alternative thoughts with regards to the Serial numbers questions. ;)

All the best from

Nick the Radical ! :)


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Title: Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
Post by: Larryh71 on May 20, 2008, 06:28AM

Hi all, Regarding the puzzle over the high numbers on
the CC1's, considering how few there were, I think it
can probably easily be explained. The numbers were
stamped on the labels at the end of the production line,
but coming off the production line there were also
checkers, "Go", Reversi, Othello, and probably printers.
The serial numbers were not separated according to what
game it was.
I've got a CC3, serial number 25463, printed on the
usual metal plate and with the numbers engraved with
a blue tint. This number is lower than a few of the CC1's on
Mike's list.
I also have a CC7, made in Chicago rather than Miami. It's in the later plastic case and the label is in the later
silver paper. However, the label design is the same as
the CC3, which does *not* have a 'model' field, therefore
no model designation. Serial number 190147, also lower
than the strangely high number on the last CC1 on Mike's
list.
Finally, like most people here, I've got an example of
the common Miami made CC7. Serial number 12682147.
These things cost a bundle back then in relation to what
people were earning. Fidelity were cleaning up.

all the best
Larry



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