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Print Page Chess Computer Community
    General Category => Discussions about Chess Computers => Message started by: blitzchess on September 18, 2009, 01:17PM
	

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Title: Collector’s corner : Machine Tournament Team
Post by: blitzchess on September 18, 2009, 01:17PM

I propose a tournament team:

I have 6 teams consisting of 3 machines Elo mini 1794 and a maximum of 1950) with the aim of proposing six teams in much the same force.

The choice of these teams has been dictated by two criteria:
- The list (Elo Aktiv List Site Schachcomputer.info).
- And, of course, my machines available for this tournament.



Team N°1: Mephisto Schröder (Elo 1911)
1) MM IV
2) Super Mondial 2
3) Rebell 5.0

Team N°2: SCISYS - Saitek (Elo 1911)
1) Turbo king 2
2) Corona
3) Turbo King

Team N°3: Fidelity Electronics (Elo 1889)
1) Excel 68,000
2) Designer 2100
3) Avant-Garde 2100

Team N°4: Novag (Elo 1888)
1) Ruby
2) Super Nova
3) Constellation Expert

Team N°5: Team Mephisto (Elo 1893)
1) Amsterdam (Richard Lang)
2) Monte Carlo (Frans Morsch)
3) MM IIa (Ulf Rathsman)

Team N°6: Selection World (Elo 1872)
1) CXG Dominator
2) Tiger Grenadier
3) CXG Concerto (which replaces the Excalibur Grandmaster, the game that I just received the EU does not)

an average of: 1892 elo.

The rate is 30" per move - 5 tournament rounds totaling 45 games.

On my web site (http://www.blitzchess.fr/fr/tournois/tournoismachines/tournoiparequipes2009.html)

Best regards
Eric
www.blitzchess.fr


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Title: Re:Collector’s corner : Machine Tournament Team
Post by: Mephisto on September 19, 2009, 11:46AM

Thanks Eric
I will keep an eye on it, it should be a very interesting event.
Excellent photo.
Regards
Bryan


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Title: Re:Collector’s corner : Machine Tournament Team
Post by: blitzchess on September 20, 2009, 01:28AM

hello,
thank you Bryan

[B]Result [/B]
[I]Team Mephisto Schröder - Scisys Saitek [/I]: 1,5 -1,5

MM IV - Turbo King II : 0 -1
Super Mondial 2 - Corona : 0,5 - 0,5
Rebell 5.0 - Turbo King : 1 - 0

see here (http://www.blitzchess.fr/fr/tournois/tournoismachines/tournoiparequipes2009.html")

Regards
Eric


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Title: Re:Collector’s corner : Machine Tournament Team
Post by: Carterdickson on September 20, 2009, 06:03AM


Nice and very interesting work.
Nice site too.

Congratulations.

Etienne.


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Title: Re:Collector’s corner : Machine Tournament Team
Post by: blitzchess on September 21, 2009, 06:19PM

hello,
thank you Etienne

Result round 1

Team Selection World (1872) – Fidelity (1889) 0,5-2,5

1) CXG Dominator 2.04 (1949) – Excel 68000 ( 1910) : 0,5-0,5
2) Tiger Grenadier (1873) – Designer 2100 (1885) : 0-1
3) CXG Concerto (1794) – Avant Garde 2100 (1894) : 0-1


Regards
Eric


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Title: Re:Collector’s corner : Machine Tournament Team
Post by: sc9 on September 22, 2009, 07:13AM

This is going to be a very interesting tournament. I did something like this with my various Fidelity chess computers many years ago. I included myself so I could estimate the computer's ELO ratings based on the algorithm provided by USCF and the tournament results.

It would be nice to provide updated ELO ratings after the conclusion of your tournament.

Also, you mention 30 seconds per move, so as long as all computers get this same time to think while each computer's opponent is thinking about its move, the results should be good enough to update the ratings. However, if you must leave one computer that has displayed its move, to enter the move on another pair of computers, or get distracted for any other reason, the computer that is thinking on its opponent's time will get an unfair time advantage.

So either you have to turn off each computer's "brain" so it can't think on its opponent's time, or you have to pay close attention to ensure that the games proceed uninterrupted without any unnecessary pauses.

How do you handle this issue?


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Title: Re:Collector’s corner : Machine Tournament Team
Post by: spacious_mind on September 22, 2009, 10:22AM


on 1253628809, sc9 wrote:

Also, you mention 30 seconds per move, so as long as all computers get this same time to think while each computer's opponent is thinking about its move, the results should be good enough to update the ratings. However, if you must leave one computer that has displayed its move, to enter the move on another pair of computers, or get distracted for any other reason, the computer that is thinking on its opponent's time will get an unfair time advantage.

So either you have to turn off each computer's "brain" so it can't think on its opponent's time, or you have to pay close attention to ensure that the games proceed uninterrupted without any unnecessary pauses.

How do you handle this issue?


Interesting question. Personally I do not think it makes much difference since during the course of the game both machines potentially have to live with the same problem. Unless of course one machine is permanently handicapped because the other machine is always getting the extra thinking time (which still I dont think makes a lot of difference because the other machines gets the same amount of ponder time). I think this balances out (one thinks longer the other ponders longer and vice versa)

With dedicated machines you will never have an exact science, the phone will ring, the kids want something the door knocks.

The only time this does make a difference is if one machine ponders and one does not and even in that case it really makes little difference. The ELO ratings for machines as well as humans should never be taken too seriously, they are interesting reference points but are always a moving target. There are examples where one machine won the first 6 games against another machine but then lost the next 6 games. How would this be rated. What would happen if the first machine wins the next 6 games.

The ratings which may be accurate (or as accurate as you can possibly get) may be engines if you let them play against each other over and over again in tournaments where they automatically play themselves.

Dedicated chess computers follow a much more human path.

best regards

Nick


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Title: Re:Collector’s corner : Machine Tournament Team
Post by: blitzchess on September 22, 2009, 11:25AM

Personally, I play at night (once the kids are in bed ;D) and I remain present during the duration of the game.

The level selected is 30 seconds. It's a long way, but I'm not sure it is well respected by the machines. This is an average!

regards
Eric


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Title: Re:Collector’s corner : Machine Tournament Team
Post by: blitzchess on September 23, 2009, 08:07AM

Hello,

Result round 1

Team “Mephisto Team” (1883) – Novag (1888) 0,5-2,5

1) Amsterdam (1924) – Ruby ( 1919) : 0-1
2) Monte Carlo (1890) – Super Nova (1888) : 0,5-0,5
3) MM IIa (1836) – Constellation Expert (1859) : 0-1

the round No. 1 is completed
Ranking Round # 1

1) Fidelity : 2,5
2) Novag : 2,5
3) Mephisto Schröder : 1,5
4) Scisys-Saitek : 1,5
5) Mephisto Team : 0,5
6) Selection World : 0,5

Regards
Eric


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Title: Re:Collector’s corner : Machine Tournament Team
Post by: blitzchess on September 26, 2009, 01:22PM

Hello,

Result round 2

Team “Fidelity” (1889) – Team “Novag” (1888) 2-1

1) Excel 68000 (1910) – Ruby ( 1919) : 0-1
2) Designer 2100 (1885) – Super Nova (1888) : 1-0
3) Avant Garde 2100 (1874) – Constellation Expert (1859) : 1-0

Regards
Eric


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Title: Re:Collector’s corner : Machine Tournament Team
Post by: spacious_mind on September 28, 2009, 10:25AM

[quote author=blitzchess link=board=1;threadid=1862;start=0#msg12408 date=1253996550]
Hello,

Result round 2

Team “Fidelity” (1889) – Team “Novag” (1888) 2-1

1) Excel 68000 (1910) – Ruby ( 1919) : 0-1
2) Designer 2100 (1885) – Super Nova (1888) : 1-0
3) Avant Garde 2100 (1874) – Constellation Expert (1859) : 1-0

Regards
Eric
[/quote]

Hi Eric,

A great win for Fidelity it looks like they will be tough to beat. Will you be playing just the one round with the machines or 3 rounds where each team machine gets to play every machine in the other team?


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Title: Re:Collector’s corner : Machine Tournament Team
Post by: blitzchess on September 28, 2009, 11:00AM

Hello Nick,
Just 5 rounds
Player N°1 meets player N°1 for another team
Player N°2... 2
Player N°3...3

Eric


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Title: Re:Collector’s corner : Machine Tournament Team
Post by: blitzchess on September 29, 2009, 12:46PM

Hello,

[B]Result round 2[/B]

Team “Scisys-Saitek” (1911) – Team “Mephisto Team” (1883) [B]2,5-0,5[/B]

1) Turbo King 2 (1930) – Amsterdam ( 1924) : [B]0,5-0,5[/B]
2) Corona (1919) – Monte Carlo (1890) : [B]1-0[/B]
3) Turbo King (1884) – MM IIa (1836) : [B]1-0[/B]

Regards
Eric


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Title: Re:Collector’s corner : Machine Tournament Team
Post by: blitzchess on October 1, 2009, 12:31PM

Hello,

Result round 2

Team “Selection Wold” (1872) – Team “Mephisto Schröder" (1911) 2-1

1) CXG Dominator (1949) – MM IV ( 1941) : 1-0
2) Tiger Grenadier (1873) – Super Mondial 2 (1939) : 1-0
3) CXG Concerto (1794) – Rebell 5.0 (1853) : 0-1

Regards
Eric


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Title: Re:Collector’s corner : Machine Tournament Team
Post by: blitzchess on October 6, 2009, 09:17AM

Hello,

Result round 3 part 1

Team “Fidelity” (1889) – Team “Scisys-Saitek" (1911) 1,5-1,5

1) Excel 68000 (1910) – Turbo King 2 (1930) : 0,5-0,5
2) Designer 2100 (1885) – Corona (1919) : 1-0
3) Avant Garde 2100 (1874) – Turbo King (1884) : 0-1

Regards
Eric


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Title: Re:Collector’s corner : Machine Tournament Team
Post by: blitzchess on October 10, 2009, 09:33AM

Hello,

Result round 3 - part 2

Team “Novag” (1888) – Team “Selection World" (1872) [B]2-1[/B]

1) Ruby (1919) – CXG Dominator (1949) : [B]1-0[/B]
2) Super Nova (1888) – Tiger Grenadier (1873) : [B]0-1[/B]
3) Constellation Expert (1859) – CXG Concerto (1794) : [B]1-0[/B]

Regards
Eric


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Title: Re:Collector’s corner : Machine Tournament Team
Post by: blitzchess on October 26, 2009, 09:26PM

Hello,

Result round 3 - part 3

Team “Mephisto Team” (1883) – Mephisto Schröder (1911) 1,5-1,5

1) Amsterdam (1924) – MM IV ( 1941) : 1-0
2) Monte Carlo (1890) – Super Mondial (1939) : 0,5-0,5
3) MM IIa (1836) – Rebell 5.0 (1853) : 0-1

the round No. 3 is completed
Ranking Round # 3

1) Fidelity : 6
2) Novag : 5,5
3) Scisys-Saitek : 5,5
4) Mephisto Schröder : 4,0
5) Selection World : 3,5
6) Mephisto Team : 2,5

Regards
Eric


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Title: Re:Collector’s corner : Machine Tournament Team
Post by: blitzchess on October 27, 2009, 02:44PM

Hello,

Result round 4 - part 1/3

Team Mephisto Schröder (1911) – Fidelity (1889) 2-1

1) MM IV (1941) – Fidelity Excel 68000 (1910): 1-0
2) Super Mondial (1939) – Fidelity Designer 2100 (1885): 0-1
3) Rebell 5.0 (1853) – Fidelity Avant Garde 2100 (1874): 1-0

Regards
Eric


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Title: Re:Collector’s corner : Machine Tournament Team
Post by: blitzchess on October 28, 2009, 01:20PM

Hello,

Result round 4 - part 2/3

Team Scisys-Saitek (1911) – Novag (1888) 3-0 !!!

1) Turbo King II (1930) – Ruby (1919): 1-0
2) Corona (1919) – Super Nova (1888): 1-0
3) Turbo King (1884) – Constellation Expert (1859): 1-0

The team SCISYS-Saitek “flies” to first place in the tournament.

Regards
Eric


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Title: Re:Collector’s corner : Machine Tournament Team
Post by: blitzchess on October 30, 2009, 08:48AM

Result round 4 - part 3/3

Team Selection World (1872) – Mephisto Team (1883) 1,5-1,5

1) CXG Dominator (1949) – Amsterdam (1919): 0-1
2) Tiger Grenadier (1873) – Monte Carlo (1890): 1-0
3) CXG Concerto (1794) – MM IIa (1836): 0,5-0,5

Regards
Eric


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Title: Re:Collector’s corner : Machine Tournament Team
Post by: blitzchess on October 30, 2009, 01:09PM

The round No. 4 is completed

Ranking Round # 4

1) Scisys-Saitek : 8,5 ;D
2) Fidelity : 7,0
3) Mephisto Schröder : 6,0

4) Novag : 5,5
5) Selection World : 5,0
6 )Mephisto Team : 4,0


Eric


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Title: Re:Collector’s corner : Machine Tournament Team
Post by: blitzchess on November 1, 2009, 10:54AM

Hello,
Last round
Result round 5 - part 1/3

Team “Scisys-Saitek” (1930) – Team “Selection World” (1872) 1-2

1) Turbo King II (1930) – CXG Dominator (1949): 0-1 la partie la plus longue du tournoi – 116 coups
2) Corona (1919) – Tiger Grenadier (1873): 0-1 la partie la plus courte - 24 coups !!! et le Tiger Grenadier annonce un mat en 6 coups
3) Turbo King (1884) – CXG Concerto (1794): 1-0

Regards
Eric


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Title: Re:Collector’s corner : Machine Tournament Team
Post by: blitzchess on November 3, 2009, 04:51AM

Hello,
Last round
Result round 5 - part 2/3

Team “Mephisto Team” (1883) – Team “Fidelity” (1889) 1-2

1) Amsterdam (1924) – Excel 68000 (1910): 1-0
2) Monte Carlo (1890) – Designer 2100 (1885): 0-1
3) MM IIa (1836) – Avant Garde 2100 (1874): 0-1
Eric


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Title: Re:Collector’s corner : Machine Tournament Team
Post by: blitzchess on November 4, 2009, 03:13AM

Hello,
Last round
Result round 5 - part 3/3

Team “Novag” (1883) – Team “Mephisto Schröder” (1911) 1-2

1) Ruby (1919) – MM IV (1941): 1-0
2) Super Nova (1888) – Super Mondial 2 (1939): 0-1
3) Constellation Expert (1859) – Rebell 5.0 (1853): 0-1

Eric


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Title: Re:Collector’s corner : Machine Tournament Team
Post by: blitzchess on November 4, 2009, 03:18AM

The tournament is finished.

The final cl(oops!)ification is as follows:

1)Scisys-Saitek: 9.5 / 15
2)Fidelity: 9
3)Mephisto Schröder: 8

4)World Selection: 7
5)Novag: 6.5
6)Mephisto Team: 5

Top performance of Fidelity Designer 2100 and the Mephisto Rebell 5.0: 5 of 5

Very interesting tournament, it allowed me to use 18 machines in 45 games

see full details (http://www.blitzchess.fr/fr/tournois/tournoismachines/tournoiparequipes2009.html")

See you soon for another tournament.

Thank you all

Best regards
Eric



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