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Print Page Chess Computer Community
    General Category => Discussions about Chess Computers => Message started by: Mike Watters on November  9, 2005, 01:59AM
	

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Title: Unique !
Post by: Mike Watters on November 9, 2005, 01:59AM

Sometimes the words rare and unique seem to have lost their meaning in these days of media hype and exaggeration. Anyway this chess computer almost certainly deserves the description unique :-



The seller decribes it so :-
The Chess Champion Mark V is itself quite rare but this one is complete in
the original packaging (which is extremely rare). What makes the item unique
is the inclusion of the original prototype (signed by Grandmasters Mikhail
Botvinnik - World Champion 1948-57, 1958-60 and 1961-1963, Ludek Pachman &
Helmut Pfleger) which was much travelled - Denmark, Ireland & Germany (among
other countries). The three GMs signed it in Germany (I forget the city but
in those days it was one city one day and another city the next) while in
Ireland it performed creditably in the Man v. Machine contest at Trinity
College, Dublin in 1981. Later in 1981 an early production model acquired
the title of 1981 World Champion (Commercial Cl(oops!)). Another production
model became the first computer ever to play in a human world championship
event, finishing a very creditable 12th/16 in the Asian Women's Zonal
tournament in Baguio City (site of the Karpov-Korchnoi world championship
match). Included in the package is a printout (believed also to be unique)
of 14 of the 15 zonal tournament games (for some reason the round 8 game is
missing), all of which are annotated by O'Connell & Levy, and a cross-table
of the tournament.


A little piece of chess computer history. :)

Mike


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Title: Re:Unique !
Post by: Chris on November 9, 2005, 03:22AM

Hi Mike, :)

Great post, thanks I missed this - do you know how much it went for at the original auction? (I saw it was listed (no 118) at Ģ200-300)

Best wishes


Chris


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Title: Re:Unique !
Post by: Overtom on November 9, 2005, 04:41AM

Great contribution, Mike!

I also liked Kevin O'Connel's collection - don't remember having seen it before.

But there was one detail I was wondering about: how does anybody get this information from eBay? The information eBay sends me is only about auctions that end within no more than seven days.

Besides, I'm wondering how you get ads which don't even have the term "chess computer" in their title. Do you search under the general term of "chess" (which yields over fifty pages)?

Can you elucidate on this, or is this a trade secret?

Best regards,

tom


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Title: Re:Unique !
Post by: Mike Watters on November 9, 2005, 05:15AM

Chris I do not know how much the lot sold for in 2000.
It is perhaps best we do not know. :'(

Tom as we are all in the trade I can tell you. But do not repeat it outside these four walls. I search on a number of names including Scisys. Are your search(s) on the basis of "newly listed" and on Ebay.com rather than Ebay.nl? I don't know but this could make a difference. The other day I won a chess computer with a bid of 1 Euro because the seller had called it a Schachcumpter but mentioned Scisys in the listing. ;D Whether he will send it to me is another matter. :-\

Kevin O'Connell had quite a collection didn't he?

BTW I have found a competitor for you and Ismenio on the matter of storage :- http://cgi.ebay.com/500-000-Records-Comics-Books-Music-Lot-Collecion-Store_W0QQitemZ4789216191QQcategoryZ46503QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

All the best
Mike


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Title: Re:Unique !
Post by: Overtom on November 9, 2005, 01:49PM

[quote author=Mike Watters link=board=1;threadid=564;start=0#msg4354 date=1131542148][size=2]Tom as we are all in the trade I can tell you. But do not repeat it outside these four walls. I search on a number of names including Scisys. Are your search(s) on the basis of "newly listed" and on Ebay.com rather than Ebay.nl? I don't know but this could make a difference. The other day I won a chess computer with a bid of 1 Euro because the seller had called it a Schachcumpter but mentioned Scisys in the listing. ;D Whether he will send it to me is another matter. :-

BTW I have found a competitor for you and Ismenio on the matter of storage :- http://cgi.ebay.com/500-000-Records-Comics-Books-Music-Lot-Collecion-Store_W0QQitemZ4789216191QQcategoryZ46503QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

All the best
Mike[/size][/quote]
Yes Mike, changing from eBay.nl to eBay.com did indeed extend the term from 7 to 9 days. I also tried eBay.com with the search word Schachcomputer. But eBay.com seemed not to understand German. But at eBay.de it worked: the term was indeed extended. But I changed it back: seeing those xenophobic Germans who are only prepared to sell their cherished computers to fellow-Germans does little more than frustrate me.

I don't really understand why eBay.nl limits the number of days - or it may have something to do with the words of Heinrich Heine who said that if the end the world came, he would go to Holland because there everything takes place later.

Your eBay link to the arch-collector was a great success here. First I split my sides laughing. Then I showed it to Mrs Overtom, who is now finally convinced there are worse cases than me

Thanks a lot & best regards,

tom


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Title: Re:Unique !
Post by: Ismenio on November 9, 2005, 03:23PM

This is great!!! Thanks for the info Mike.
That prototype would be something I would like to have but I don't think I can even dream of bidding on it. Especially now with the project for the robot ;)

I have never seen a prototype for sale anywhere! If I were working for one of those companies I would do what I could to keep them.

Also that PDF/catalog for the other auction was really interesting! I wonder about where these items are today:
(Well, we now know about the Mark V prototype ;) )

CHESS COMPUTERS

118 Chess Champion Mark V, complete in original packaging, SciSys, 1981; together with the original protoype, signed by Botvinnik, Pachman & Pfleger, instruction manuals etc. (Box 187) Ģ200-300

119 Intelligent Chess, German version, mint in original packaging with user manual, Hamburg, Intelligent Games Ltd; and 5 others including a Fidelity Sensory Chess computer, with original packaging & power supply (Box 188) Ģ100-200

120 Intelligent Chess, U.K. version, complete in original packaging, Intelligent Chess Ltd.; and 9 others including a Chess Partner 2000 and a Novag Super Sensor IV (Box 189) Ģ200-400

121 Fidelity Sensory Voice Chess Challenger, in original “briefcase”, lacking manual; together with a quantity of other computers, software etc., much of it mint in original packaging Ģ150-250

(oops!)OCIATION BOARDS & SETS

122 Working Intelligent Chess Board, no. 24, used in 12 tournaments 1992-97, including the legendary J. Polgar-Kasparov game at Linares 1994, with velour slipcase, large metal carrying case, power supply & connecting cables; together with 1986 GLC Chess Set, no. 2, used additionally for the 1998 Karpov-J. Polgar match (From 182 & 194) Ģ700-1000

123 Working Intelligent Chess Board, no. 31, used for the 1996 Kasparov simul & Narbonne 1997, with velour slipcase, large metal carrying case, power supply & connecting cables; together with a 1986 GLC Chess Set, no. 3, additionally used for the 1998 Benko-S. Polgar match (From 182 & 194) Ģ400-600

124 Intelligent Chess Board, no. 9, used for 5 tournaments/matches from Manila 1992 to Madrid 1997 (including the 1997 Madrid Kaspparov Internet simul), with velour slipcase and internal electronics but sold as non-working; together with a Manila 1992 Chess Set, no. 9, additionally used as the set in the previous lot for Madrid 1997 (From 183 & 194) Ģ100-200

125 Intelligent Chess Board, no. 20, used for 5 tournaments/matches 1991-97, including Linares 1991 and the 1993 Short-Tinman Candidates Final, with velour slipcase and internal electronics but sold as nonworking;
together with a Manila 1992 Chess Set, no. 10, used as set in previous lot (From 183 & 194) Ģ200-400

126 Intelligent Chess Board, no. 23, used for Las Palmas 1994 & Linares 1995, with velour slipcase and internal electronics but sold as non-working; together with a Manila 1992 Chess Set, no. 11, used as the set in the previous lot (From 183 & 194) Ģ100-200

127 Intelligent Chess Board, no. 25, used for 3 tournaments including Manila 1992 and Linares 1994,
notably the Kasparov-Karpov game, with velour slipcase and internal electronics but sold as nonworking; together with a Manila 1992 Chess Set, no. 12, used as the set in the previous lot (From 183 & 194) Ģ200-400

128 Chess Set, no. 14, used in numerous tournaments/matches 1989-1997, including the Kasparov-Karpov game at Skelleftea 1989; together with an empty unmade Intelligent Chess Board and a felt-backed board with wooden surround (From 194 & 182) Ģ100-200

129 Chess Set, no. 15, used in various tournaments/matches 1989-97, including the Kasparov-Short match in 1993; together with an empty made up Intelligent Chess Board (From 194 & 182) Ģ200-300

130 Chess Sets & Boards, a quantity of miscellaneous sets and boards, including 4 reserve sets for Manila 1992, a Swedish wooden set used in the analysis room at Skelleftea 1989, magnetic sets, Chinese chess sets, Shogi boards etc. etc.; together with a Garde clock used in Kasparov games and a working ‘BCM’ clock (Box 201/180 (part)) Ģ150-250

END OF THE KEVIN O’CONNELL COLLECTION


Regards,

Ismenio


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Title: Re:Unique !
Post by: Ismenio on November 18, 2005, 05:06PM

So it endeed today!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5828369576

Winning bid: GBP 314.12
(Approximately US $539.97)
Ended: Nov-18-05 15:49:10 PST
Start time: Nov-08-05 15:49:10 PST
History: 7 bids (GBP 5.00 starting bid)
Winning bidder: smartcapitalist ( 329Feedback score is 100 to 499)

Well, congrats to Steffen. No doubt that's a unique computer. Even if it doesn't work it is still a historical unit. Interestingly, the final bid was only GBP 14.12 over the estimated amount that you can see in the great catalog that Mike posted here.

I think this is the only prototype I ahve ever seen on eBay. Has anyone else seen any other?

It makes me wonder how much the prototype for the CC1 would go for ::) http://tinyurl.com/dc8tr

Ismenio


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Title: Re:Unique !
Post by: Mike Watters on November 19, 2005, 12:16AM

Yes congratulations steffen.

I think that there is a good chance of it working. The Mark V uses a Din plug so maybe it is just a case of finding the right one, or getting one made up.

I thought it might make more at the auction. It seems that there is a great demand for the rare or the very fast, like the V11, but not for a Unique museum piece. Maybe that will change over time?

Mike


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Title: Re:Unique !
Post by: steffen on November 19, 2005, 07:45AM

Yes, hello, back again :)

Iīm pretty happy to win this auction. We will see whether itīs working or not. At least itīs a museal piece.
I was very suprised that neither Karsten nor Steve B would bid for it. I just spoke to Karsten B - he is out for a computer tournament, so that explains. But why didnīt Steve bid for it?
As many of you know my collection consists of many oldies, so I guess itīs in good hands.

@ Mike: I wonder where the auction would end without your bid...


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Title: Re:Unique !
Post by: Ismenio on November 19, 2005, 05:49PM

Hi Steffen,

I was interested in this one but I already learned my lesson and when I saw you and Mike there, I knew there would be no chance for the little guy here ::)

I don't know about Karsten but I may be able to comment on Steve. I remember a post on CCC back when I had time to go around other forums, where he mentioned that he was very specific in his criteria and was not interested in prototypes or modified computers. Not sure if he still thinks that way but because he didn't bid on this one I think that's still the case.

Please let us know when you get it! I'd love to see more pictures of it. Maybe you can load them on our map with some comments?

Congratulations again.

Regards,

Ismenio


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Title: Re:Unique !
Post by: steffen on November 20, 2005, 12:25AM

Hi Ismenio,

this is interesting. Yesterday I spoke to Karsten and he hadnīt seen this auction. He would have bid for it and it would have ended for me like you spoke about Mike and me ;) I would also have had no chance even though my bid was still well higher.
It should come end of this week, the seller said. Iīm VERRRY keen on it!!!


Best
Steffen


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Title: Re:Unique !
Post by: Robert Weck on November 21, 2005, 12:33AM

Hallo Steffen,


Congratulation for it!!!

good, that you had won the auction, so i have a chance to see it at Erlenbach next year!! :)

I was also interested, but the seller could not confirm, that it would work, because he had no adaptor for it! So the final price was too high for me...

Will you try to get it working?


Robert


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Title: Re:Unique !
Post by: steffen on November 21, 2005, 01:30AM

Hi Robert,

first I want to say that Cathi and me will be happy to see you next spring in Erlenbach!
I will really be surprised whether the Prototype will work or not. I just wonder why the seller didnīt test it the the "normal" Mark Vīs adaptor. So itīs really a sort of "black box".
I will for sure try to get it running if it doesnīt work. Please cross your fingers for me!

Best,
Steffen


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Title: Re:Unique !
Post by: Robert Weck on November 21, 2005, 02:45AM

Hi Steffen,

on 1132565434]
first I want to say that Cathi and me will be happy to see you next spring in Erlenbach!
[/quote]
I'm looking forward to this event too! (and of course meeting Cathi and you!) ;)

Quote:

I will really be surprised whether the Prototype will work or not. I just wonder why the seller didnīt test it the the "normal" Mark Vīs adaptor. So itīs really a sort of "black box".

Maybe the plug is different? The seller told me, that he believes(!), that the adaptor of a normal MK V could not be used (but he also wrote, that it should be marked on the machine, which polarity it needs and so on!)

Maybe i should take my "adaptor collection" with me to Erlenbach? ;D
[quote, steffen wrote:

I will for sure try to get it running if it doesnīt work. Please cross your fingers for me!

I hope, it's working fine! ;)

And even when it will not work, i think it is interesting for you, isn't it? (i must admit, that i don't like malfunctioning computers! >:()

Give Cathi a big hug and a :-* from me! ;)


Robert


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Title: Re:Unique !
Post by: steffen on November 24, 2005, 02:34PM

Hi together,
hi Robby,

yes, youīre right, the "normal" Mark Vīs adaptor should not work. And I wonīt try, as it is marked on the back of the computer, how the adaptor should look like. I`m going to ask somebody to build the right one for I can check it and let it run!

I just asked the seller whether it was the machine that won the World Championship. Included was an original PC-printed report of this machineīs result at the Interzone Tournament in Baguio City. And the games of this Mark V were also printed and originally commentes by David Levy and Kevin oīConnell.
As this tournament took place end of November 1981 this indicates that I now own the WORLD CHAMPION of 1981. But the seller will (hopefully) tell me more.

And that the seller has not REALLY had the adaptor, is very reliable. Do you want to know who the seller is? Just look here: http://www.markorr.net/tica/players/oconnellk/home.html#Prof0

Yes, itīs true!

Best,
Steffen


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Title: Re:Unique !
Post by: Mike Watters on June 2, 2006, 01:52PM

Steffen

I have read your post on Kurt's Forum. Many congratulations to you and to Arno for getting the Mark V Prototype back to working order. That is great. :D Does it function the same as a Mark V or are there noticeable differences? Any photos?

All the best
Mike


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Title: Unique ;D
Post by: steffen on June 3, 2006, 04:12AM

Hello together,
hello Mike,

yes, this is really a great thing, believe me. It is working better and the display is more perfect than any "normal" Mark V I have had in my hands!

I sent 3 photos to Ismenio, as I am unfortunately unable to upload them directly into this forum.

Best DHL and Parcelforce regards,
Steffen


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Title: Re:Unique !
Post by: steffen on June 3, 2006, 04:32AM

Sorry Mike,

I hadnīt caught your answer.
It works very similar to the "normal" Mark V; but you must find the button-combinations, as there exists no manual.

Iīm really very happy with it :)

Steffen


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Title: Re:Unique !
Post by: Ismenio on June 5, 2006, 06:01AM

This is excellent news! A piece of chess computer history restored. Congratulations!
Also, thanks for sending the pictures Steffen :)
Here they are for everyone to see them.

Best regards,

Ismenio

[url=http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs101&d=06231&f=MarkVprot1.JPG]

[url=http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs301&d=06231&f=MarkVprot2.JPG]

[url=http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs301&d=06231&f=MarkVprot3.JPG]


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Title: Re:Unique ;D
Post by: Robert Weck on June 9, 2006, 02:35AM

[quote author=steffen link=board=1;threadid=564;start=0#msg6286 date=1149333122]
yes, this is really a great thing, believe me. It is working better and the display is more perfect than any "normal" Mark V I have had in my hands!
[/quote]
you're right, the display is very good!


Robert



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