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  Some Citrine result with 40/2 time
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   Author  Topic: Some Citrine result with 40/2 time  (Read 998 times)
Chest-Nut
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Re:Some Citrine result with 40/2 time
« on: March 3, 2007, 08:18AM »
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I just finished playing two more 40/2 games between the Citrine and Super Expert C.  Since my 1st posting of this message, I start playing the Super C with the Default selective 5 option instead of the 4.  It seems either the Citrine got broke in (which I doubt) and is start playing stronger and stronger every game, or there is a much bigger differences between the Selective 4 and Selective 5 in 40/2 time.  As the Citrine is dominating the Super - sel5.  So far the Citrine is winning with a score of 6-2.  On the last games, the Citrine announced a mate-in-7 on move 36.  Which I thought is not possible (but I am not very strong) as there was a few defensive pieces around the king that could be exchanged to release the pressure.  But Citrine move it around and did it.  Which I thought it is very interesting to watch.  It is too bad I don't know how to post the position here like other members did.  But I have the full notation here...

[White "Super Expert C - Sel 5"]
[Black "Citrine"]
[Result "0-1"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Nxe4 6. d4 b5 7. Bb3
d5 8. dxe5 Be6 9. c3 Bc5 10. Nbd2 O-O 11. Bc2 Nxf2 12. Rxf2 f6
13. exf6 Bxf2+ 14. Kxf2 Qxf6 15. Nf1 Ne5 16. Be3 Rae8 17. Bc5
Rf7 18. N1d2 Bf5 19. Kg1 Nxf3+ 20. Nxf3 Be4 21. Bxe4 dxe4 22. Bd4
Qf5 23. Nh4 Qg5 24. Qe1 e3 25. Qg3 e2 26. Re1 Rf1+ 27. Rxf1 exf1Q+
28. Kxf1 Qc1+ 29. Kf2 Qxb2+ 30. Kg1 Qc1+ 31. Kf2 Qe1+ 32. Kf3
Qe2+ 33. Kf4 Qe4+ 34. Kg5 h6+ 35. Kh5 Qd5+ 36. Kg4 Re4+ 37. Kf3
Re5+ 38. Kg4 h5+ 39. Kh3 Qe6+ 40. Nf5 Qxf5+ 41. Kh4 Re4+ 42. Qf4
Qxf4+ 43. Kh3 Qg4+ 0-1

Quite an impressive moves in my own opinion.

Regards,

Chest-Nut

   
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GeeMo
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Re:Some Citrine result with 40/2 time
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2007, 04:52PM »
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I havent done any testing at the higher levels, because I dont have that much time or patience.  But the Citrine is weaker than I expected it to be at the lower levels.  Generally, the machine has a greater advantage against humans at faster speeds (at least, I've always heard), so I expcted it to kick my butt in blitz.  Yet I'm finding I can beat it about half the time.  I've either got a lot better than I thought I had, or the Citrine is weaker than I thought it would be.  I must admit this is a pleasant surprise, though.  I'd rather play something that beats me half the time than one I never have any hope of winning a game from.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 04:53PM by GeeMo » Report to moderator Logged
mackgra
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Re:Some Citrine result with 40/2 time
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2007, 10:43AM »
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I have done some testing of my own between the Citrine and the mephisto kasparov chess challenger. All the games were game/60 min and a total of 10 games were played. the final score was 6-4 in the Citrine's favour. Since the chess challenger is rated about 2000 ELO, this puts the Citrine's strength at 2080 ELO.

I think overall however the true strength of the Citrine is nearer 2050ELO and my thoughts were confirmed when i received my latest copy of Selective Search magazine which has it at 2053ELO.

Again a lot more games need to be played vs other dedicated machines. Somewhere in the region of 100 games would give us a good idea.

Graham
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Chest-Nut
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Re:Some Citrine result with 40/2 time
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2007, 06:14AM »
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Yes, the results are some what disappointed for me.  Since the Citrine is my new addition, I am cheering for it all the way.  I would thought and expect the Citrine have a touch better result or stronger than the Super Expert C.  I notice when the games go toward the end of the mid-game.  It start to or already lost its advantage which it gain during the beginning of the mid-game. 
But I still enjoy playing with Citrine than my older flavrite (Super Expert C) as the board is not as busy.

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Robert Weck
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Re:Some Citrine result with 40/2 time
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2007, 02:25AM »
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Quote from: Chest-Nut on February 19, 2007, 10:21PM   

Citrine VS Super-4 (Citrine play white first )

Citrine : 1/2-......1/2.....0......0.....1/2.....1/2+.....1/2+.....0
Super4 : 1/2+.....1/2.....1.....1.....1/2.....1/2-......1/2-......1

Base on the result between the Citrine and Super Expert C with Selective 4. Is the Citrine under performed? Or it does require more games to judge?

Thank you very much; especially the comparison between Citrine and Super Expert C 6 is very interesting in my eyes!

I would say, the Citrine should perform better than that!
(requires surely more games)

I did a match (10 games) Star Ruby (seems to be identical to Citrine except Citrine's bigger book) against Super Expert C 6; the result was 5 - 5. Ok, level was only 30min/game, but such a big difference?

And even 20 games can be too few to be sure...


best regards,
Robert
« Last Edit: February 20, 2007, 02:27AM by Robert Weck » Report to moderator Logged
Chest-Nut
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Some Citrine result with 40/2 time
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2007, 10:21PM »
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I noticed that there isn’t much games result of the Citrine in 40/2 time play posted. So I thought I will share some of the results here. My purpose was to try out the Citrine, but since I (only) have 4 Chess computers, so I have them play with each other at the same time. All games are in 40/2 time and played alternate with white and black.

First, here is what I have...
1) The new Novag Citrine
2) The Novag Super Expert C with 6Mhz (played with Selective 4)
3) The Radio Shack Chess Champion 2150 4Mhz
4) The ChessGenius 2.3 on a Palm Tungsten-E 144Mhz ARM version with 1MB of hash. ( I think it is 144Mhz, in any case, it is in its original speed )

Please note of the draw game result, I added the + and - which is a draw games, but I give a + for the side if I see it has material advantage, and consider it is a bit lucky for the other side to get a draw. Also initially, I was going to play 8 games head-to-head with each unit, but I only complete the 8 games with Citrine VS Super Expert C. As I felt the result for the other are more predictable.

And here are the results:

RS-2150 VS Citrine ( RS-2150 played white first )

RS2150 : 0.....1/2+.....1/2-.....0
Citrine :.. 1.....1/2-......1/2+....1

Super Expert C VS Genius ( Super play white first )

Super4 : 0.....0.....0.....0
Genius : 1.....1.....1.....1

Citrine VS Super-4 (Citrine play white first )

Citrine : 1/2-......1/2.....0......0.....1/2.....1/2+.....1/2+.....0
Super4 : 1/2+.....1/2.....1.....1.....1/2.....1/2-......1/2-......1

Genius VS RS-2150 (Genius play white first) Waste of time, I gave up early, just played 3 games 

Genius : 1.....1.....1
RS2150 : 0.....0.....0

Citrine VS Genius (Genius play white first)

Citrine : 0.....0.....1/2+.....0
Genius : 1.....1.....1/2-......1
I really thought Citrine can win that draw game, but some how Genius forces a lucky draw....

Super Expert C VS RS-2150 ( Super play white first)

Super4 : 1.....1/2.....1/2+
RS2150 : 0.....1/2.....1/2-

Another point I like to point out is on the last game between the Super C and Citrine. Super won that game as Citrine resign. So I took the game all the way back to the end of opening moves and I have Citrine play with the White instead. And the Citrine win it with announcement of Mate in 5. Citrine was able to win it easier. I thought that was interesting...

Hope you enjoy seeing the result. And if someone can comment or translate the result into some performance rating it would be great.
Base on the result between the Citrine and Super Expert C with Selective 4. Is the Citrine under performed? Or it does require more games to judge?

Regards,

Chest-Nut
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