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  review end: NOVAG CITRINE = CITRINE UCB / Serial NUM - Rating Level on Back LCD.
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   Author  Topic: review end: NOVAG CITRINE = CITRINE UCB / Serial NUM - Rating Level on Back LCD.  (Read 3758 times)
KarmaZen
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Re:review end: NOVAG CITRINE = CITRINE UCB / Serial NUM - Rating Level on Back L
« on: March 12, 2007, 05:05PM »
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You can see here THAT NOT EXITS any diferent among (between ?) CITRINE  & CITRINE UCB... exits models whit this errors, NOVAG say that all citrines previus 2007 have this error, and need a pacht it...

...this means that it is not new but rather this repaired

I don´t like a Computer chess second Hand... I will not send my citrine to reparer... I like more my finished board wood. of UCB.


Quote:

autor: MECA
MY UNIT HAS THE SAME BUGS

My board is not the UCB recicled:

the first problem is:

1. e4, e5
2.Cf3, Cc6
3.Ac4, Ac5
4.Cc3, Cf6
5.d3,
Cxe4

The other problem is:

1. e3, d5 (human plays with black)
2. d4 and "crash", I need a hard reset to resolve this problem.

Serial number 188468

Be careful with serial numbers close to 188xxx



Very good post... this is the confirmation that we need, because some people don't want to believe to novag when they say that all previus CITRINE (date 02-2007) need a pacht...

http://users.boardnation.com/~chesscomputers/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=1161
if you remeber, perphaps you can post the other number:  (on LCD... or board)

a lot of thanks for you courage...

SOME Body have this courage to post IT his NUMBER serial courage or not courage ?? that can help other users when they go to buy a "new" computer ...
« Last Edit: March 12, 2007, 06:07PM by KarmaZen » Report to moderator Logged
KarmaZen
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Re:review end: NOVAG CITRINE = CITRINE UCB / Serial NUM - Rating Level on Back L
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2007, 06:00PM »
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Quote:

i am interested in the citrine but don't want to buy a lemon


XD (lemon is good have a lot of vitamine "C", is good for think ;-). the CITRINE okis now... but Some people thinks that the first board "UCB" leyend are more beautiful wood...


Quote:

1-what's the return policy for these machines?


The LEGAL information consumer policy in spain is that if products have any error in fist 6 moth it´s posible give the money returns


Quote:

2-what's the warranty terms?


NOVAG have a two LONG years, if in this time have any problem NOVAG change it or repair if you like...


Quote:

and also, if you had to suggest a 2nd option to the citrine, what would it be? (i don't want to buy used chess comps)
thank you
a visitor


You can see that if "box" citrine was open previus buy ;-) and if CITRINE is open hardware down covert...

But I think that NOVAG solved this problem fast. because some users call they to solved it... ;-)

bye, Karma since spain
« Last Edit: March 11, 2007, 09:16PM by KarmaZen » Report to moderator Logged
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Re:review end: NOVAG CITRINE = CITRINE UCB / Serial NUM - Rating Level on Back L
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2007, 05:41PM »
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i am interested in the citrine but don't want to buy a lemon
can someone give me some brief answers to these questions?

1-what's the return policy for these machines?
2-what's the warranty terms?

and also, if you had to suggest a 2nd option to the citrine, what would it be? (i don't want to buy used chess comps)

thank you

a visitor
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KarmaZen
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Re:NOVAG CITRINE overclocking ?
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2007, 07:43PM »
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somebody can help me to "change" some components to overclocking CITRINE

any more information in "overclocking" versions of previus novag chess ?

bye
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KarmaZen
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Re:REVIEW End: NOVAG CITRINE = CITRINE UCB / Serial NUM - Rating Level on Back L
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2007, 04:11PM »
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hi,
somebody like Post SERIAL NUMBER ?
and rating LEVEL in back LCD ?
bye...


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KarmaZen
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review end: NOVAG CITRINE = CITRINE UCB / Serial NUM - Rating Level on Back LCD.
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2007, 03:28PM »
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(image test go scroll down) I like a lot my Citrine, but the true is that it have some bugs. but don´t are very important.

CITRINE is FANTASTIC have good price, good rating (~2000), but some bugs in books and one bug in bucle open... in units perphaps previus 02-2007. (novag solved it very fast and good if the clients wants but I don´t send my CITRINE UCB because like more that board finihsed.)
REVIEW End: NOVAG CITRINE = CITRINE UCB / Serial NUM - Rating Level on Back LCD.

Hi, friendlys
Now I finished the Complete review of Citrines ( not UCB are UCB are = )
Posible that the Finishes end-board of UCB are more beautiful in "wood" and "varnish", because that units are the first in market and novag like show a good finish board. INTERNAL the hardware is "identical" and in test you can see Two models used the SAME time to solved problems.
IMAGE TEST and BUGS loading book. ( you can see that to version (label: UCB) are used = times.

After this you can see ALL test BT2450-2630. +extra info.








_____________
It will be intereting that USERS of CITRINE post his NUMBER model and Rating level REAL test by novag, (you can see in back of LCD or Back board).

The USCF elo is rating in 2330 ( star ruby is in 2320, but I don´t thinking that the program are the "identical", I think that his program is a revision more "segure" not sacrifique material and a "book" that have 23.998 post.
I think that in his book some "BAD" lines of models Start diamond or Shappire are "cut" and permit that Citrines Thinking ... in some moments his "moves" are better that a bag book...
His level in "end games" not is so god that in Star series, but his book and a revision program permit "fight" some games vrs other computers chess that are a lot of more expensiva that CITRINE.
CITRINES looks are good, and setup positions runs well and fast (only not is posible desactivate sound off human moves and sound moves On in citrine moves... or sound all, or sound OFF all.) in model obsidian this is posible ? , but perphap the program not are "="...
If somebody test whit other Star Ruby or Obsidian in positions test.. they can see "my valorations write" in that test, nodos / s, and plys... ( not only times )
Real tactical test are in Bt2450 = ~2000 and in Bt2630 in 1977 ... because his book is a little better perphaps his FINISH ELO are in 2025 (not posible more ELO )
NOT it´s TRUE that have 2200 or 2100, this is FALSE...
but for a 98% players is enouhg for play games.
(I´m win in some games ;-)
The better results of Star series not are very important in GAMES real, because that diferents are in "moves" that CPU is thinking MORE of 10 minutes...
In games REAL, nobody usin a 600" seconds by move... and then all Chess computer dedicate are SIMILAR... ( not is a good option BUY a super expensiva chess board... )
Only the Phoenix computers are good in real times...  modules resurretions and RELELATIONS whit a rybka module load  are good but they are very expensive now... perphaps down in future ;-). ( when somebody test a one unit of this board ? )
____________
http://www.chesscomputer.eu/index.htm
http://www.chesscomputer.eu/prod02.htm
www.playchess.com
____________
You can read more information about CITRINEs, that in these mail of diferents clients of novag:

Quote:

_______ mail novag:
Dear Oliver,
Thank you for your email.
Please be assured that your Citrine is exactly the same as all the other
Citrines.
The difference is that yours came from the first production run
and the serial number of your Citrine is placed on the LCD box together with
the rating label.

Yours truly,
Jeannine
Perfect Technology Ltd.
________

In other mail on other person we can verificate that Karmazen NOT lie... and see all the true:
author=Bryan Whitby:

Quote:

Hi Robert
Here's an email from the Novag boss, Jeannine that I received today about my Citrine Universal Electronic Chess Board opening book errors.
_____________________
author=Bryan Whitby
Another email from Jeannine states
Please be assured that your Citrine is exactly the same as all the other
Citrines. The difference is that yours came from the first production run that all had the additional "Universal Electronic Chess Board" wording.
Regards
Bryan

Dear Bryan,
Thank you for your email.
We have immediately checked the program and created a software fix -apologies for all the inconvenience caused!
We would prefer it if you could send the board to us, because upgrading the program involves taking the board apart and soldering some points on the PCB.
Can you either send the board to Spain (we will be there all next week, 12-16 March) or to Hong Kong?
If you feel however that it would be no problem for you to do the
upgrading yourself, we would be happy to send you the instructions.
Thank you!
Jeannine
Perfect Technology Ltd.
_________________________
I have asked Jeannine if she could send me the hardware fix instructions and the software update file so I can do it myself.


http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/6766/testcitrinevrscitrineucur6.jpg
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/9420/testcitrine4zt4.jpg
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/5391/citrineinfoserialandlevov8.jpg
http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/115/errorcxe4italianopenzr4.jpg
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/6141/errord4oe0.jpg
http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/497/testcitrinesni6.jpg
_____________

En resumen: (this zone in spanish)

Ahora vamos a ANACAdigital para ver que familia es esa de la CPU, y luego a la pag del fabricante:

http://www.anacadigital.com/dedicados/procesadores_risc.htm
(citamos textualmente en cursiva)

Hitachi H8/300: Se trata del modelo más extendido de este procesador. Cuenta con un juego de 75 instrucciones de alta velocidad. Es un procesador de 8 bit que puede funcionar a 10 MHz (3V) o a 16 MHz (5V). Es capaz de direccionar hasta 64 Kbytes de memoria externa e integra 1 ó 2 Kbytes de RAM según modelos (H8/3434 y H8/3437). El H8 es un procesador que puede funcionar a 8 bit, 16 bit o 32 bit según convenga. Esta subfamilia no admite registros de 32 bit, pero sí de 8 bit o 16 bit. El procesador tiene inicialmente 16 registros de 8 bit que pueden configurarse como 8 registros de 16 bit. Aquí hay que matizar, ya que el H8/300 es realmente un 8 bit que admite procesar algunas operaciones en 16 bit. Por ejemplo, la suma de registros se hace en 8 o 16 bit, la multiplicación de registros sólo en 8 bit y la división debe ser de la forma "registro de 16 bit entre registro de 8 bit". Con esto se consigue tener un procesador más capaz que un 8 bit puro, pero a un coste muy reducido. Integra una memoria ROM (Flash ROM, PROM o Masked ROM) de hasta 60 Kbytes (32 o 60 si es el H8/3434 o el H8/3437).

H8 de 16 bit

H8/300H: Esta subfamilia cuenta con procesadores a 16, 17 y 18 MHz a 5V o 10 y 13 MHz a 3V. Hay modelos sin ROM integrada (H8/3001-5) preparados para manejar memoria externa mediante interfaces EPROM, DRAM o SRAM; pero con 4, 2.o 0,5 Kbytes de RAM interna. Otros modelos integran 16, 32, 48, 64, 96, 128 o 256 Kbytes de ROM en el chip, además de 4, 2 o 0,5 Kbytes de RAM. Direcciona hasta 16 Mbytes de RAM externa. Esta subfamilia admite ciertas operaciones aritméticas en 32 bit, pero no se le puede considerar un procesador de 32 bit ya que no puede procesar código de 32 bit, sólo de 16 bit. Igual que el H8/300, el H8/300H también puede procesar ciertas instrucciones de 8 bit.


Puede que sea una version H8/300H Tiny. ?¡

H8S/2000: Es la subfamilia más capaz de la serie H8. Integra 32, 64 o 128 Kbytes de ROM y 2, 4 y 8 Kbytes de RAM según modelos. Su frecuencia de proceso es de 20 MHz a 5V y de 10/13 MHz a 3V. El resto de características son iguales a la serie H8/300H salvo en los interfaces de memoria externa, siendo soportados los siguientes: EPROM, Burst ROM, SRAM y DRAM. También soporta SmartCard___

despues de este repaso historico sobre CPUs de novag...
vamos a RENESAS... que es la pag del fabricante...

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/6106/h8familycoreroadmapsd1.gif


Posiblemente se refieran a la serie SINGLE (tiny), (centro esquema), y 16 bits... (pienso que aunque compatibles con 32, todos los micros de novag trabajan en 16 bits...)

[i]http://www.renesas.com/fmwk.jsp?cnt=h8_family_landing.jsp&fp=/products/mpumcu/h8_family/&site=i

http://www.renesas.com/fmwk.jsp?fp=/search&site=i&cnt=SearchResults.jsp&qt=H8/3687&col=iactengl

Product Overview:

The H8/3687 Group offers enhancement of the peripheral functions of the H8/3664 and is optimized to achieve a higher performance. The device has a 56 kbytes on-chip single supply flash memory (3 to 5V operation) and as peripheral functions, is equipped with a powerful timer (2 channel 16-bit timer), a 10-bit A/D converter, asynchronous/synchronous interface (2 channel) and CMOS high current I/O ports. Package is available in 64-pin small surface mount package as the H8/3664 that can be used as I/O port of 45(53)-pin.
Power-on reset and low-voltage detection functions are also available as options. These functions are useful for the design of systems which are subject to supply voltage fluctuations or require system protection when battery power is used.
The device may use emulator E8 satisfying the requirements for the application of on-chip debugger.
In addition, the Evaluation and Development Kit (EDK) for H8/3687 is already available now in North America. The EDKs provide a way for prospective developers to experience the performance of Renesas microcontrollers and the functionality of our range of development tools. For more information about EDKs.

Key Features:

- High-speed H8/300H central processing unit with an internal 16-bit architecture
- Upward-compatible with H8/300 CPU on an object level
- Sixteen 16-bit general registers
- 62 basic instructions

Various peripheral functions
- RTC (can be used as a free running counter)
- Timer B1 (8-bit timer)
- Timer V (8-bit timer)
- Timer Z (16-bit timer)
- 14-bit PWM
- Watchdog timer
- SCI (Asynchronous or clocked synchronous serial communication interface) × 2 channels
- I2C Bus Interface (conforms to the I2C bus interface format that is advocated by Philips Electronics)
- 10-bit A/D converter

Key Applications:
 
Consumer fields: Digital camera Sub(Lens Control)
Industrial:Motor control system Sub, Robot Sub
Home electronics:Indoor unit of air conditioner, Outdoor system control of air conditioner, Microwave oven, Refrigerator, Washer
Automotive: Passenger detection on air bag XD

(and I say here:) and in CHESS calculation machines ¡¡¡

http://documentation.renesas.com/eng/products/mpumcu/rej09b0213_h8300h.pdf

y esto tiene que ver con el oscilador, pero esta demaseado detallado para mis conocimientos y ninguno pasa de 20 Mhz...

http://www.renesas.com/fmwk.jsp?fp=/products/mpumcu/h8_family/h8300h_tiny_series/h83687_h83687n_group/oscillation_parameters/&cnt=h83687_h83687n_reference_use_oscillation_01_child.htm&title=&lid=null

tiene que ser sencillo subirle a 25 Mhz o a 32 Mhz... pero claro, hay que saber cual cambiar...

A ver si alguien se anima y comenta algo de como cambiaron la velocidad en modelos anteriores, y si encuentran un enlace pues mejor que mejor, ni que decir tiene que un 10 sobre 10 para RENESAS; toda la informacion que necestan los profesionales, sin exigir registro previo ni demas trivilorios, DOCUMENTACION, programacion, caracteristicas.. todo...

http://www.renesas.com/fmwk.jsp?cnt=h83687_h83687n_block_diagram.htm&fp=/products/mpumcu/h8_family/h8300h_tiny_series/h83687_h83687n_group/child_folder/&title=Block%20Diagram

http://www.renesas.com/fmwk.jsp?cnt=h83687_h83687n_pin_arrangement.htm&fp=/products/mpumcu/h8_family/h8300h_tiny_series/h83687_h83687n_group/child_folder/&title=Pin%20Arrangement

http://www.renesas.com/fmwk.jsp?cnt=product_folder.jsp&fp=/products/mpumcu/h8_family/h8300h_tiny_series/h83687_h83687n_group
[/i]


_____________
( in this revies are every all 90 % info ) but if you need more:
info about CITRINEs bibliografic

http://meca.mundoforo.com/novag-citrine-review-pc-comands-inside-cpu-protocol-test-vt61.html

http://users.boardnation.com/~chesscomputers/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=1154
http://meca.mundoforo.com/review-final-citrine-ucb-citrine-fotos-serial-num-rating-l-vt107.html
http://meca.mundoforo.com/novag-citrine-lcd-amp-pc-conection-simultaneamente--vt63.html
http://meca.mundoforo.com/tremendo-error-de-programacion-de-la-citrine-vt88.html
http://meca.mundoforo.com/mas-cerca-de-salir-el-driver-pc-for-citrine-vt67.html
http://meca.mundoforo.com/test-about-novag-citrine-comunication-oks-pc-or-serial-ports-vt62.html
http://meca.mundoforo.com/novag-test-bt-2450-y-bt-2630-citrine-ucb-elo-19772025-vt98.html
http://meca.mundoforo.com/copias-de-test-bt-2630-y-bt-2430-vt96.html
http://users.boardnation.com/~chesscomputers/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=1157

http://users.boardnation.com/~chesscomputers/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=1154
http://users.boardnation.com/~chesscomputers/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=1157
http://users.boardnation.com/~chesscomputers/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=1151

POSITIONS BT 2450-2630 (1d-3d-30d-60d)
___________________
http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/6527/bt2430bt2630bt2830testecj3.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/3610/bt2430bt2630bt2830testemw0.jpg
http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/4309/bt2430bt2630bt2830testejy1.jpg
http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/7424/bt2430bt2630bt2830testebt9.jpg
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/3249/bt2430bt2630bt2830testehr2.jpg
http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/8248/doccomite10002me6.jpg
http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/4307/exceltestresultbt2630btnv3.jpg
______________


________

Texto en un limitado ingles, pero el objetivo lo cumple:


Quote:
It will be intereting that USERS of CITRINE post his NUMBER model and Rating level REAL test by novag, (you can see in back of LCD or Back board).
The USCF elo is rating in 2330 ( star ruby is in 2320, but I don´t thinking that the program are the "identical", I think that his program is a revision more "segure" not sacrifique material and a "book" that have 23.998 post.
I think that in his book some "BAD" lines of models Start diamond or Shappire are "cut" and permit that Citrines Thinking ... in some moments his "moves" are better that a bag book...
His level in "end games" not is so god that in Star series, but his book and a revision program permit "fight" some games vrs other computers chess that are a lot of more expensiva that CITRINE.
CITRINES looks are good, and setup positions runs well and fast (only not is posible desactivate sound off human moves and sound moves On in citrine moves... or sound all, or sound OFF all.) in model obsidian this is posible ? , but perphap the program not are "="...

If somebody test whit other Star Ruby or Obsidian in positions test.. they can see "my valorations write" in that test, nodos / s, and plys... ( not only times )

Real tactical test are in Bt2450 = ~2000 and in Bt2630 in 1977 ... because his book is a little better perphaps his FINISH ELO are in 2025 (not posible more ELO )

NOT it´s TRUE that have 2200 or 2100, this is FALSE...

but for a 98% players is enouhg for play games.
(I´m like win it in some games ;-) )

The better results of Star series not are very important in GAMES real, because that diferents are in "moves" that CPU is thinking MORE of 10 minutes...
In games REAL, nobody usin a 600" seconds by move... and then all Chess computer dedicate are SIMILAR... ( not is a good option BUY a super expensiva chess board... )
Only the Phoenix computers are good in real times...  modules resurretions and RELELATIONS whit a rybka module load  are good but they are very expensive now... perphaps down in future ;-). ( when somebody test a one unit of this board ? )http://www.chesscomputer.eu/index.htm
http://www.chesscomputer.eu/prod02.htm
www.playchess.com

_________

Somebody help me to overclocking CITRINE =?

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/1618/novagdet4ss3kc1.jpg

http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/2351/novagdet5hd6.jpg

http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/7268/novagdet2clockosciladorxd2.jpg


I like a lot do a overclocking... but I know level only up 50-100 points.. perphap down that...

___________

End I hope you like this reviews ...
_____________
Other pc connections Serial port:
Alain Zanchetta do a "beta" driver to comunicate Citrine whit interface...
and user in meca forum do:
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/182/partida15022007213446al0.jpg

downloading---- (16 seconds start)
http://9083ja.files-upload.com/files/105058/citrine.rar
http://download2-4.files-upload.com/2007-02/15/22/citrine.rar ______________
NEXT invention gadget:

Module Battery for NOVAG CITRINE: ( six battery tip: A or AA: normal consumer: of 1,5 Volts)

Bye Karmazen,
since Spain

(somebody like post his number serial and rating Level) ? ;-)
« Last Edit: March 11, 2007, 07:29AM by KarmaZen » Report to moderator Logged
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