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  Excalibur Phantom Force - 7 Weeks !!
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TurboKing
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Re:Excalibur Phantom Force - 7 Weeks !!
« Reply #100 on: July 19, 2007, 08:56AM »
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Hello
I really don't understand why Excalibur make so cheap and weak chess computers because
If I remember correctly, Excalibur was founded by Sydney Samole  who is  the son of the founder of Fidelity Electronics.
Fidelity used to make very good computers, the strongest one which was Fidelity Elite almost reached 2300 elo .. , then why did Excalibur not benefit from the experience and chess skills of Fidelity programmers ?

Excalibur could have been a good chess computers maker.
Instead of that they make bugged computers which have weak programs whereas its competitors-Novag and Mephisto/Saitek are able to make strong & well programmed computers ( at least over 2000 elo )

So I am rather disappointed that this nice Excalibur Phantom Force might not be rated over 1800 elo because it could have been more valuable than some of the best models of Novag and Mephisto/Saitek .
Let's say that if it were rated 2000-2200 elo then it could beat a Novag Citrine or a Mephisto Master chess at its price range because of its many nice features.

@Mephisto :are you sure that EPF could be rated 1700~1800 elo ?
I hope that they will upgrade to make it way stronger it if it's true.
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Robert Weck
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Re:Excalibur Phantom Force - 7 Weeks !!
« Reply #101 on: July 19, 2007, 06:48AM »
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Hi Bryan,


Quote from: Mephisto on July 19, 2007, 05:23AM   

Having owned a Grandmaster I just find it hard to believe that it obtains a 1800 ELO against humans.

Against humans, you might be right. The GM does not play very active (not to say passive!) and against humans this strategy should be not very effective! And it is not good in the endgame, which also favors humans.

But against computers, it scores relatively good! And our list is based on computer matches.

Contrary to the GM: Look at the Star Diamond and its speculative play: This is more successful against humans, but against good computers, it has its problems.


regards,
Robert
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Mephisto
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Re:Excalibur Phantom Force - 7 Weeks !!
« Reply #102 on: July 19, 2007, 05:23AM »
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Hi Robert
I think that your disappointment is correct
But let's just wait and see but I'm still betting on 1700.
Having owned a Grandmaster I just find it hard to believe that it obtains a 1800 ELO against humans.
When I played in World & European postal tournaments my rating was for many years around 2000. Over the past ten years my rating has decreased to I guess around 1700 and I never had any problem defeating the Grandmaster at any level.
Bryan
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Robert Weck
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Re:Excalibur Phantom Force - 7 Weeks !!
« Reply #103 on: July 19, 2007, 04:35AM »
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Hello Bryan,


Quote from: Mephisto on July 19, 2007, 12:10AM   

As for it's rating, it contains Ron Nelson's strongest program but not new. The robotic hardware is just basically the same as the old Mirage and as far as I am aware and the original Mirage played at around ELO1700 on a good day.

As far as i know, the Mirage had the same program as the Grandmaster, just with a little lower CPU-speed (10 instead of 12 MHz)

So i would estimate the Mirage at about 1850-1900 ELO (in our recently updated Active Chess rating list the GM has 1845 ELO)

But the 136 levels of the PF seem to point to the program of Deluxe Talking Touch Chess/Alexandra the Great; here the 1700 ELO could be correct in my opinion.

Also the display looks the same!

Would be disappointing for me, if i were right... 

Such a nice machine deserves the best program, that Excalibur has!


we will see...

Robert
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Mephisto
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Re:Excalibur Phantom Force - 7 Weeks !!
« Reply #104 on: July 19, 2007, 12:50AM »
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Hi
I have a contact who has actually seen the new Phantom in it's pre production release and was totally unimpressed with the old robotic hardware being used.
Let's hope that the smaller board will produce fewer problems.
Bryan
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Mephisto
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Re:Excalibur Phantom Force - 7 Weeks !!
« Reply #105 on: July 19, 2007, 12:10AM »
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Hi
All you have to do for the enlargment is download the Opera browsing system here
http://www.opera.com/download/
I don't personally like Opera but it's worth it just to see the enlarged Phantom Force in all it's glory. I think Excalibur have done a really nice job on the design.

The robotic hardware is just basically the same as the old Mirage and as far as I am aware and the original Mirage played at around ELO1700 on a good day.
Bryan
« Last Edit: July 19, 2007, 05:24AM by Mephisto » Report to moderator Logged
Robert Weck
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Re:Excalibur Phantom Force - 7 Weeks !!
« Reply #106 on: July 18, 2007, 11:43PM »
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Hello Ismenio,


Quote from: Ismenio on July 18, 2007, 07:52PM   

Thanks for all replies folks.

@Robert: I had tried to right-click and save it but I only got an image of the small icon - but, likely the problem is between my ears

Hmm; did you right-click on "Enlarged View" and then "save target as..."?

The target url should be this: http://excaliburelectronics.net/HighResImages/images/740-D_HR.jpg


also using Firefox regards,
Robert
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Re:Excalibur Phantom Force - 7 Weeks !!
« Reply #107 on: July 18, 2007, 10:34PM »
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Quote from: Mephisto on July 16, 2007, 11:44PM   

Hi
Yes it isn't very strong about ELO1700 is it's real playing strenth.
Also no it doesn't contain a new Ron Nelson program so my contacts in the business advise me.
Bryan


Hi Bryan,

This means that it's going to be weaker than the Mirage?Really? This would be too bad...(and for me hard to explain)

Regards,
Andres
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Ismenio
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Re:Excalibur Phantom Force - 7 Weeks !!
« Reply #108 on: July 18, 2007, 07:52PM »
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Thanks for all replies folks.

@Robert: I had tried to right-click and save it but I only got an image of the small icon - but, likely the problem is between my ears

@Bryan: Many thanks for the pictures! I was going to compare that to the picture of the prototype from last year but I don't have time. I think I see some differences though the pieces are clearly the same as the ones used in the Mirage... I think!

@goldorak: You guessed it! I'm a happy Firefox user! I used (and liked) Opera a long time ago, when they had an ad-based version. I don't know why I didn't keep it but I'll look into it again.

Does anyone have information on who's going to sell it, i.e., chess stores besides Excalibur themselves?

I only got replies from two vendors.

WholesaleChess, didn't even know about it!! But they said they'll probably be carrying it.

ChessUSA said they have ordered a shipment and Excalibur claimed they had them.  If they arrive this week, the price will be 249.95/ea.

If I recall correctly, couldn't we pre-order the Citrine? Is Excalibur not promoting it with the vendors? I'm not a business guy by any stretch but I've seen companies doing things like sending review units to gadgets magazines to generate buzz and such.

Ismenio
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drawmeister
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Re:Excalibur Phantom Force - 7 Weeks !!
« Reply #109 on: July 17, 2007, 01:35AM »
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Yes unfortunately it has been marketed more as a novelty toy especially with having a weak playing level of 1700 elo.

The manufacturers cannot afford to exceed the release date by much as they would lose the lucrative Christmas selling.

It still looks a little too plastic in construction but for the asking price of $250 i will definitely be buying one. 

of course the Phantom still rules 

Ian.
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Re:Excalibur Phantom Force - 7 Weeks !!
« Reply #110 on: July 17, 2007, 12:15AM »
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So, we can say that it's a toy 
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Re:Excalibur Phantom Force - 7 Weeks !!
« Reply #111 on: July 16, 2007, 11:44PM »
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Hi
Yes it isn't very strong about ELO1700 is it's real playing strenth.
Also no it doesn't contain a new Ron Nelson program so my contacts in the business advise me.
Bryan
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Re:Excalibur Phantom Force - 7 Weeks !!
« Reply #112 on: July 16, 2007, 02:44PM »
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  ONLY MATE IN 5

yes, it doesn't seems a strong computer
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Re:Excalibur Phantom Force - 7 Weeks !!
« Reply #113 on: July 16, 2007, 02:26PM »
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Hi
For those of you who can't enlarge the Phanton Force photo on the Excalibure site, here a couple of enlarged photos.
Click on the main photo to make it bigger.
http://novagbw.spaces.live.com/

Regards
Bryan
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Re:Excalibur Phantom Force - 7 Weeks !!
« Reply #114 on: July 16, 2007, 10:47AM »
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Quote from: Ismenio on July 16, 2007, 06:01AM   

Well, I'm happy to see that a release date is on the site... but, I'm waiting until we can actually buy it before celebrating. Sorry, it's just that Excalibur doesn't have a good track with announcing products and actually releasing it.
Remember the robotic arm model? I was actually able to "buy it" and had to have my credit card refunded because it was never released!

Also, I see a few minor problems with the product page:



As of this post, if I click on the "Enlarged view" button I get:

The image “http://excaliburelectronics.net/HighResImages/images/740-D_HR.jpg” cannot be displayed, because it contains errors.




Hi Ismenio,

Let me guess, you're using Ie or Firefox ?
With Opera it doesn't give error, it opens a new page with the phantom in all its glory. 
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Jose
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Re:Excalibur Phantom Force - 7 Weeks !!
« Reply #115 on: July 16, 2007, 07:52AM »
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Excellent Job Robert. Great Photo! 

Intersting is the new way to notate the rows and cols?!
On the bottom and the left side it is okay A - H and 1 - 8, but on the right side it is 8-1 instead of 1-8. Perhaps it is for the option "change side", but then the numbers standing on the head? The same like the letters on the top!

For me a little confusing the new way of writing....

Ron Nelson Regards José
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Re:Excalibur Phantom Force - 7 Weeks !!
« Reply #116 on: July 16, 2007, 07:26AM »
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Hello Ismenio,


Quote from: Ismenio on July 16, 2007, 06:01AM   

Also, I see a few minor problems with the product page:



As of this post, if I click on the "Enlarged view" button I get:

The image “http://excaliburelectronics.net/HighResImages/images/740-D_HR.jpg” cannot be displayed, because it contains errors.

I got the same message!

but you can do a right-click instead and "save as"; this worked!

It is a very good picture! I don't understand, why our browsers have problems with it...

Hey, the Reset-button is on the top; i find this very comfortable!

I sometimes have to reset my Super Expert/Diablo, if it was unused for a longer period. It is very disgusting, to find out, that you need to reset it, after you have already set up all the pieces!  :-

I always forget to check it first... 


best regards,
Robert

Btw.: It would be better, if you never need the reset button! 
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Re:Excalibur Phantom Force - 7 Weeks !!
« Reply #117 on: July 16, 2007, 06:01AM »
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Well, I'm happy to see that a release date is on the site... but, I'm waiting until we can actually buy it before celebrating. Sorry, it's just that Excalibur doesn't have a good track with announcing products and actually releasing it.
Remember the robotic arm model? I was actually able to "buy it" and had to have my credit card refunded because it was never released!

Also, I see a few minor problems with the product page:



As of this post, if I click on the "Enlarged view" button I get:

The image “http://excaliburelectronics.net/HighResImages/images/740-D_HR.jpg” cannot be displayed, because it contains errors.

And did I see a misspelling word here or was this written by a programmer ( )?:



OK, I'm being picky here, I know, but this is the type of stuff I expect to see on my site, not on pages for a company like Excalibur. My point is, that doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in me.

With that said, I think they have added some great features to the Phantom:

- Adjustable LCD contrast
- The build in chess piece storage compartment
- Scrolling words on the LCD

And I like that it can run on batteries, like the Mirage. But does anyone know if you need a screw driver to open the battery compartment like in the Mirage? I really don't like that

Also, I fear that it looks very much like the Mirage and I hope it didn't inherit the dreaded "stall" "feature" that just about every Mirage owner is aware of.

Does anyone know if it will automatically adjust the pieces at the beginning of a game to ensure they're at the center of the squares, like the MBs and Fidelity Phantoms?

Just my $0.02 - for whatever it's worth 

Best regards,

Ismenio

PS: I was wondering if I could pre-order it, but I can never get a response from Excalibur. Right now it lets you add it to your shopping cart but you can't save it or check out - I know, I know, 09/01, but I had to try it

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Re:Excalibur Phantom Force - 7 Weeks !!
« Reply #118 on: July 12, 2007, 11:13PM »
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Quote from: goldorak on July 12, 2007, 03:01PM   


Well french isn't spoken only in Quebec. 




Ugo,

I can tell you from experience that the laguage spoken in Québec has not got much in common with French

In fact they pretend to speak French better that people from France but usually they mix up French and English all the time.

annuler - canceller
verifier - checker
planifier - sceduler

and so on.

I doubt the computer will talk Quebecois lol.

Alain:

merci!


Christian
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Re:Excalibur Phantom Force - 7 Weeks !!
« Reply #119 on: July 12, 2007, 03:01PM »
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Quote from: bobosse on July 12, 2007, 02:23PM   

Most of the Excalibur market is in North America.

Sorry for Alain (and myself), but I think that the French voice is for the Canadian market, where a significant amount of people refuse to speak english.

Spanish is of course mandatory in North America (a lot more than French).

Am I wrong ?



Well french isn't spoken only in Quebec. 
As a language french is certainly more important than german, but not including german in the Phantom is let me say it quite stupid.
If you're going to sell this chess computer in europe they should have included also german.
And really how much more memory would have be necessary to include a fourth language ?
Maybe it would have added 5$ top to the chip.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2007, 03:01PM by goldorak » Report to moderator Logged
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