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  New Novag Robot
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   Author  Topic: New Novag Robot  (Read 7170 times)
yeti
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Re:New Novag Robot
« on: December 30, 2008, 11:47AM »
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Here are two games that I had the 2Robot play. Both are against Mephisto 2, Level A4 and WE8 for the 2Robot (about 45s per move):

[Event "45 s / Zug"]
[Site "MyTown"]
[Date "2008.12.26"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Mephisto 2"]
[Black "2Robot"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "B23"]
[Annotator "Carl,Dietmar"]
[PlyCount "89"]
[TimeControl "40/7200:20/3600:1800"]

{485MB, DIETMAR
} 1. e4 c5 2. Nc3 e6 3. f4 d5 4. Bb5+ Bd7 5. Bxd7+ Qxd7 6. Nf3
Nc6 7. exd5 exd5 8. O-O O-O-O 9. d3 Re8 10. Re1 Rxe1+ 11. Qxe1 d4 12. Ne2 Nf6
13. c3 Be7 14. cxd4 cxd4 15. Bd2 Re8 16. Ne5 Qd5 17. Nxc6 bxc6 18. Qg3 Bc5 19.
Qf2 Ng4 20. Qh4 Ne3 21. Bxe3 Rxe3 22. Nc1 h5 23. a3 Qe6 24. h3 Re1+ 25. Kh2 Qe3
26. Qg5 Rxc1 27. Rxc1 Qxc1 28. Qf5+ Kd8 29. Qxf7 a5 30. Qg8+ Kc7 31. Qxg7+ Kb6
32. Qe5 a4 33. Qb8+ Ka5 34. Qa8+ Kb5 35. Qb7+ Bb6 36. Qf7 Qxb2 37. Qc4+ Ka5 38.
Qxc6 Qxa3 39. Qa8+ Kb5 40. Qe8+ Kb4 41. Qb8 Ka5 42. Qa8+ Kb5 43. Qe8+ Ka6 44.
Qc8+ Ka5 45. Qa8+ 1/2-1/2

[Event "45 s / Zug"]
[Site "MyTown"]
[Date "2008.12.28"]
[Round "?"]
[White "2Robot"]
[Black "Mephisto II"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "C30"]
[Annotator "Carl,Dietmar"]
[PlyCount "81"]
[TimeControl "40/7200:20/3600:1800"]

{485MB, DIETMAR
} 1. e4 e5 2. f4 Bc5 3. Nf3 d6 4. Nc3 Nf6 5. Bc4 Nc6 6. d3 a6
7. fxe5 Nxe5 8. Nxe5 dxe5 9. Bg5 Bf2+ 10. Kxf2 Ng4+ 11. Qxg4 Qd4+ 12. Be3 Qxe3+
13. Kxe3 Bxg4 14. Raf1 f6 15. Re1 O-O-O 16. Nd5 c6 17. Nc3 Rd7 18. h3 b5 19.
Bxb5 axb5 20. hxg4 b4 21. Ne2 Ra7 22. Nc1 Kd7 23. c3 bxc3 24. bxc3 h6 25. d4
exd4+ 26. cxd4 Ra3+ 27. Kf4 Re8 28. g3 g5+ 29. Kf5 Rf3+ 30. Kg6 Rxg3 31. Kxf6
Re6+ 32. Kg7 Rxg4 33. Nd3 Re7+ 34. Kxh6 Kc7 35. Nc5 Rg2 36. Rb1 g4 37. Kg5 g3
38. Rb7+ Kd8 39. Rh8+ Re8 40. Rd7+ Kc8 41. Rxe8# 1-0

After several games that I played against the 2Robot, I got the impression that the program is tactically acceptable, however in positions where not much is to do, it has no plan at all and tends to ruin its position by useless pawn moves.

Dietmar
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Robert Weck
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Re:New Novag Robot
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2008, 06:10AM »
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Quote from: Meca on December 15, 2008, 04:15AM   

Hello. I have it already. My opinion is not very good  due to I would like it could replay the game,

for this feature, it has too less RAM. As you can only take back 25 plies, a replay feature would not make much sense.

Quote:

to do an autoplay and to put the chess set in start position when you do a new game ... but is doesn't it.

I'm glad, that it doesn't! It's so slow; i don't have so much time to waste! 

The strength could be somewhat higher,  but one should always keep the low price in his mind.

A "real" robot with an arm for less than 140 Euro; i would not have expected that...


Robert

P.S.: I did some games against the CXG Star Chess (IMO the best 4K program until now) and they were very entertaining!  (2Robot leads with 3,5:2,5, but i think, it is a little stronger than this score implies)
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Meca
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Re:New Novag Robot
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2008, 04:15AM »
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Hello. I have it already. My opinion is not very good  due to I would like it could replay the game, to do an autoplay and to put the chess set in start position when you do a new game ... but is doesn't it.



Well, I have done a review useful for latin people (it's in Spanisg language) and I leave here the link due to there're users into this forum from all over the world:

http://www.meca-web.es/articulos/articulo_12.htm

Also, I have done some videos, one is taking  the computer out the box ... it could be useful if we're not sure how to put it into again.
Here the link:
http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=KxCcnkdGsmk

I have done more videos:

Game (I): http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=thnXsaU2qkw
Game (II): http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=v7CmlHtch6c
Calibrating: http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=JzSvpE281n8

Finally, I want to say that I'm not very sure if the calibrating tool is so useful as it should be.

Best regards



« Last Edit: December 15, 2008, 04:17AM by Meca » Report to moderator Logged
yeti
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Re:New Novag Robot
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2008, 08:01AM »
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My two 2Robots have arrived yesterday! I am very happy with the computer and it does exactly want I expected it to do. While it is not very strong, I do not think it is as weak as some people might guess. To give you some numbers:
I took the book "Ketterling/Schwenkel/Weiner: Schach dem Computer (1983)" as a reference and tested the 2Robot.
1. The test for the playing style (agressive/active/passive) ended with a mate in 10 moves (level WE5), 20s /move) if the white player is very passive. This means the program is active.
2. Winning with rook: Takes 15 moves which is good.
3. Mate in 3 (page 130): 6 seconds (playing level)
4. Mate in 3 (page 149): Less than one second (playing level)
5. Page 164, winning a queen (3 moves): 12 seconds, 40seconds to find the correct counter move
6.Page 153, mate in four: 3 minutes 30 seconds in playing level, 1 minute 35s mate search level

This all is not too far from the elite champion and better than Sargon 2.5, Morphy, Capablanca.

Further tests (for example games against Mephisto II and III) will follow.

Dietmar
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Dietmar
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Re:New Novag Robot
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2008, 07:57AM »
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Mike
Nice photo.
I notice that the arm has been slightly modyfied with a few less screws in the base.
Must be a cost-cutting exercise?
Bryan



« Last Edit: November 29, 2008, 07:58AM by Mephisto » Report to moderator Logged
Mike Watters
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Re:New Novag Robot
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2008, 05:23AM »
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The Robot arrived this morning. I only ordered it on Monday so full marks to Niggemans for fulfilling the order in that time. For only 7.50 Euros postage as well.

Here it is



First impressions are that it is well made but very basic chess computer as robots go. As you can see from the game below it has a comparitively weak program. I would estimate 1300-1400 elo. My score so far 2-0. 

There is no autoplay feature. Presumably missing for simplicity but it's lack would reduce wear as well. No replay or set up board features. No evaluations or search info. You can take back only 25 ply so have to keep a record of the game, which is why I lost my first one!

Despite this it is of course a fascinating thing to watch and play, and could bring chess computers to the attention of a wider public.

[Event "30 secs per move"]
[Site "Milton Keynes"]
[Date "2008.11.28"]
[Round "2"]
[White "Watters, Michael"]
[Black "Novag 2Robot"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "A07"]

1. Nf3 {0} d5 {0} 2. g3 Nf6 3. Bg2 Bf5 4. d3
e6 5. O-O h6 6. b3 Bc5 7. Bb2 O-O 8. Nbd2 Nc6 9. c4 d4 10. a3 Qd7 11. b4 Be7
12. b5 Na5 13. Qa4 b6 14. Ne5 Qd6 15. Bxa8 Rxa8 16. Ndf3 Ng4 17. Bxd4 Rd8 18.
Bc3 Nxe5 19. Bxe5 Qc5 20. Qb4 Qxb4 21. axb4 Bxb4 22. Bxc7 Rd7 23. Be5 Nb3 24.
Rab1 Nd2 25. Rxb4 Nxf1 26. Kxf1 f6 27. Bb8 g5 28. Ra4 g4 29. Nh4 Kf7 30. Nxf5
exf5 31. Rxa7 Ke7 32. Rxd7+ Kxd7 33. Bf4 h5 34. d4 Kd8 35. e3 Kc8 36. Ke2 Kd8
37. Kd3 Kc8 38. c5 bxc5 39. dxc5 Kd8 40. c6 Ke7 41. b6 h4 42. b7 hxg3 43. fxg3
Ke6 44. c7 Kf7 45. c8=Q Ke7 46. b8=Q Kf7 47. Qg8+ Ke7 48. Qd6# 1-0

Hopefully the 2Robot will be sufficient of a success for Novag to think it worthwhile to bring out a second version. One with the program and features the robot deserves.

Robot arm wrestling regards
Mike



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Mike Watters
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Re:New Novag Robot
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2008, 09:14AM »
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Hi All

On Schachcomputer.info I see that the first consignment of the Novag 2Robot has arrived at Niggemann's in Germany. A few of the community have already posted their early opinions. Thanks to Bryan we know what to expect. A weak program but a well designed robot.

My order is in.

All the best
Mike
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marko
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Re:New Novag Robot
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2008, 10:05AM »
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Quote from: Jose on September 25, 2008, 05:18AM   

That info i also got!
Anybody know if a dust cover is included?

Best José

Hi José,

According to Krista at the ChessHouse, there is not a dust cover included with the Novag 2Robot.

Best regards,
Marko
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Jose
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Re:New Novag Robot
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2008, 05:18AM »
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That info i also got!
Anybody know if a dust cover is included?

Best José
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Re:New Novag 2Robot at Chesshouse.com
« Reply #9 on: September 24, 2008, 03:14PM »
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The Chess House has announced that the Novag 2Robot Electronic Chess    
has an estimated arrival in mid October. The sale price is $199.95. Here is a link for more info:

http://www.chesshouse.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=B1029

Best regards,
Marko
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mclane
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Re:New Novag Robot
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2008, 10:52AM »
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i got the email that they consider about selling a stronger version too (maybe if we demand/ask for it...)

but first they sell the star-beryl program to see how sales develop, and then they decide.
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K Hoffman
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Re:New Novag Robot
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2008, 12:56PM »
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Just got the phantom..

Now this.. where am I goint to keep.. them..

Still someday might buy the orginal when it comes up on Ebay and my house has more equity
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Re:New Novag Robot
« Reply #12 on: January 5, 2008, 01:57PM »
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Great News !, and just what we need to kick start some chess computer interest.

I don't think the program strength will matter as the novelty value will be what is most important.......

.....i do play seriously against my Phantom, take your 'eyeball' off the game and it will get you !.

I too will be joining the queue to buy one and imagine it will be just before Christmas {although not yet brave enough to say which year}

Ian.

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Re:New Novag Robot
« Reply #13 on: January 5, 2008, 01:03PM »
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Quote from: TurboKing on January  3, 2008, 03:38PM   

Nevertheless I don't think that Novag is interested in improving the robot.


Hi Turbo

Yes I think that you will be proved correct about the 2Robot. Novag will probably never bother to put a strong program in it. As Alain says, if you want a serious game you choose a machine which is a bit stronger than you, and a Robot is just a distraction. Nevertheless I will be one of the first in the queue when they're eventually on sale.

All the best
Mike
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Re:New Novag Robot
« Reply #14 on: January 5, 2008, 05:15AM »
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Press sensory.
Bryan
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Re:New Novag Robot
« Reply #15 on: January 4, 2008, 11:39PM »
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Is this board auto or pressure sensory?

I think the old robot had magnet sensors!
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Re:New Novag Robot
« Reply #16 on: January 4, 2008, 12:35AM »
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Hi,

may be the new Novag Robot's program is a bit too weak but I don't think that this is really an issue :
if I want to play a "serious" chess game, I use one of my wooden boards or a "normal" plastic one such as Milano family, Par Excellence, Designers, Excel, etc...
I have never played a serious game against my Fidelity Phantom chess computer and I don't think I'll ever will.
And I don't think that club players looking for a better user experience than a PC screen would choose a Robot !
The Citrine would really take advantage of a stronger program as it could interest more club players, the Robot does not.

Best regards,
Alain
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Re:New Novag Robot
« Reply #17 on: January 3, 2008, 03:38PM »
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Quote from: Mike Watters on January  3, 2008, 07:32AM   

... Hopefully the Novag 2Robot hardware will prove good enough to deserve a better program and features in due course.

Good for Novag and their testers.

All the best
Mike



Hello Mike and Happy year 2008

Do you have any information about a possible upgrade ?

If Novag considers making a stronger program and adding new features then it would be better for you , me , us to wait for the upgrade of the robot , isn't it ?

Nevertheless I don't think that Novag is interested in improving the robot.
A chess robot rated 1800~2000 elo would certainly decrease the sales of their strongest chess programs (Citrine , Obsidian and co) so that it would not be a good marketing choice to upgrade it.
For instance let's consider the Excalibur Phantom Force :
why did they choose a weak program for EPF ?
They did it because a chess robot that would be rated over 1800 elo could kill the sales of their strongest chess computers. Actually it is a matter of marketing.
It's sad but true.
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Re:New Novag Robot
« Reply #18 on: January 3, 2008, 07:32AM »
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Excellent news Bryan. 

I for one am very pleased that there have been some positive developments in the chess computer market over the last few months. We have to remember that there are a large number of people who play and enjoy chess who could not beat this 2Robot program.

Presumably stronger programs scare off potential customers because they feel that they would have no chance against it?

Anyway, there is a fascination about watching a Robot play chess which can only encourage more youngsters to try chess and help our hobby. Hopefully the Novag 2Robot hardware will prove good enough to deserve a better program and features in due course.

Good for Novag and their testers.

All the best
Mike

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Re:New Novag Robot
« Reply #19 on: January 3, 2008, 06:25AM »
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Hello

this computer is so weak that I wonder if Novag has done it on purpose in order to remain competitive and therefore keep on selling their 'strong' chess computers (Citrine and co ) or if they are too lazy to release a robot with a strong program
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