logo Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register.
August 23, 2019, 09:45AM
Home Help Search Login Register
News: Visit a member's site: http://zanchetta.net/echecs/  (Alain Zanchetta)

  Chess Computer Community
  General Category
  Discussions about Chess Computers
(Moderators: Endspielgott, Overtom, bobosse)
  Rare Chess Computers - Website
ę previous next Ľ
Pages: [1] 2 Reply Notify of replies Send the topic Print 
   Author  Topic: Rare Chess Computers - Website  (Read 2781 times)
Larryh71
Newbie
*

Offline

Posts: 29

I love Boardnation!

View Profile
Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
« on: May 20, 2008, 06:28AM »
Reply with quote

Hi all, Regarding the puzzle over the high numbers on
the CC1's, considering how few there were, I think it
can probably easily be explained. The numbers were
stamped on the labels at the end of the production line,
but coming off the production line there were also
checkers, "Go", Reversi, Othello, and probably printers.
The serial numbers were not separated according to what
game it was.
  I've got a CC3, serial number 25463, printed on the
usual metal plate and with the numbers engraved with
a blue tint. This number is lower than a few of the CC1's on
Mike's list.
  I also have a CC7, made in Chicago rather than Miami. It's in the later plastic case and the label is in the later
silver paper. However, the label design is the same as
the CC3, which does *not* have a 'model' field, therefore
no model designation. Serial number 190147, also lower
than the strangely high number on the last CC1 on Mike's
list.
  Finally, like most people here, I've got an example of
the common Miami made CC7. Serial number 12682147.
These things cost a bundle back then in relation to what
people were earning. Fidelity were cleaning up.

  all the best
  Larry
Report to moderator Logged

Procrastinate now!
spacious_mind
Sr. Member
****

Offline

Posts: 349



HEY FRITZ!..... SLOW DOWN!!!!!

View Profile E-Mail
Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
« Reply #1 on: May 5, 2008, 09:54AM »
Reply with quote

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your reply. 

A question! How many CC3's do you think were sold in 1977 and 1978? 

Also when I refer to a Storeoom full of CC1's, might it not be possible that the casings and other parts where already produced (including Serial Tags) in large volumes from where ever they got them from, especially since the casing was re-used over and over again with CC3's and 10's?  That makes me think of one large bulk shipment/order. 

If I buy tags even today I receive much better prices if I buy them in large quantities. 

Back then and today, you cannot sell to a Radio Shack or any other large store unless you can supply all their stores at the same time, therefore I do think that their expectations were higher then just the 1000 units indicated in reports.

It probably took 6-9 months back then to get the chips ordered and delivered so it was very likely that CC3 software was already developed when CC1 was launched.  However the casings and other major parts where already available and at much lower prices.  The Chips themselves may have cost a lot of money back then but the rest I don't think so.

I am just throwing out some alternative thoughts with regards to the Serial numbers questions. 

All the best from

Nick the Radical !
Report to moderator Logged
Mike Watters
Hero Member
*****

Offline

Posts: 1605



Another day, another blunder.

View Profile WWW E-Mail
Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
« Reply #2 on: May 5, 2008, 03:28AM »
Reply with quote


Quote from: spacious_mind on May  2, 2008, 03:51PM   

Hi Mike,
Is it possible that they produced that many but when the recalls started they put a hold on selling more CC1 and refitted them with CC3? That might also explain the randomness of numbers because it might be unlikey that they shipped them to the stores in a sequential numbering order.  Perhaps they shipped a few out to satisfy the early most demanding customers and then held back with shipping more.  Does the numbering range fit into the sequences of later CC3's ?

Since this was a new product in the Market, I can easily imagine that they have to produce a lot in advance to meet the Stores Order books.  For example Radioshack have what about 6000 Stores in USA?  Only for Radioshack if that was their customer they might easily have received an Order for 30.000 units with down payments.

I don't think you just produce and hope to sell.  You go out there and get your orders and then produce in order to hit all the stores at the same time.

The 1000 units might have only been an early Test to check customer reaction or even a "Knee Jerk" reaction,, which was more likely because of pressure from some more demanding bigger customers who threatenend them with cancelling all their orders unless they received a shipment immediately?  Who knows 

I also doubt that they were any more sophisticated then just grabbing the nearest randomly stored boxes or pallets of a storeroom full of manufactured CC1's.  If you stack a storeroom shelving system bottom to top and left to right  and then only take pallets from the top or from the bottom what do you get with regards to a numbering sequence?

I do not think that the numbering sequence means a thing if you try to visualize a bigger picture due the the problems and PANIC! they faced because of knowing that you have a disaster in your hands.  (See $75 upgrade offer printed on the CC1 manual).

I think CC1 was a manufacturing failure and they knew it!  The competition was just months away.

Just a thought

Nick


Hi Nick
IIRC there was no obvious pattern between the CC1s and CC3s.

Samole unveiled the CC1 at the Chicago Consumer Electronics Show in January 1977 and got lots of orders, but I am not sure that they were orders for large numbers, and of course Fidelity were not geared up to make chess computers yet. Some of the details are included in the Sid Samole story, a link for which can be found on my CC1 webpage - http://www.chesscomputeruk.com/html/fidelity_chess_challenger__cc1.html

On Ismenio's Fidelity page you can see photos of the CC1 exhibits at the Chess Museum in Miami which confirms again the 1000 total built number. See here - http://www.ismenio.com/fidelity.html

Although we can look at a CC1 today and think of the components being worth only a few Dollars. I remember the days in the mid 1980s when I bought a 486 PC for £2,500. Hardware was very expensive back in those days and the hardware for a 1000 CC1s would have been a fairly big investment for a company like Fidelity were at the time.

Had some news from Arno the other day that he is getting around to my ones.

All the best
Mike
Report to moderator Logged
spacious_mind
Sr. Member
****

Offline

Posts: 349



HEY FRITZ!..... SLOW DOWN!!!!!

View Profile E-Mail
Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
« Reply #3 on: May 2, 2008, 03:51PM »
Reply with quote

Hi Mike,
Is it possible that they produced that many but when the recalls started they put a hold on selling more CC1 and refitted them with CC3? That might also explain the randomness of numbers because it might be unlikey that they shipped them to the stores in a sequential numbering order.  Perhaps they shipped a few out to satisfy the early most demanding customers and then held back with shipping more.  Does the numbering range fit into the sequences of later CC3's ?

Since this was a new product in the Market, I can easily imagine that they have to produce a lot in advance to meet the Stores Order books.  For example Radioshack have what about 6000 Stores in USA?  Only for Radioshack if that was their customer they might easily have received an Order for 30.000 units with down payments.

I don't think you just produce and hope to sell.  You go out there and get your orders and then produce in order to hit all the stores at the same time.

The 1000 units might have only been an early Test to check customer reaction or even a "Knee Jerk" reaction,, which was more likely because of pressure from some more demanding bigger customers who threatenend them with cancelling all their orders unless they received a shipment immediately?  Who knows 

I also doubt that they were any more sophisticated then just grabbing the nearest randomly stored boxes or pallets of a storeroom full of manufactured CC1's.  If you stack a storeroom shelving system bottom to top and left to right  and then only take pallets from the top or from the bottom what do you get with regards to a numbering sequence?

I do not think that the numbering sequence means a thing if you try to visualize a bigger picture due the the problems and PANIC! they faced because of knowing that you have a disaster in your hands.  (See $75 upgrade offer printed on the CC1 manual).

I think CC1 was a manufacturing failure and they knew it!  The competition was just months away.

Just a thought

Nick


Quote from: Mike Watters on May  2, 2008, 09:55AM   

Hello Ga√ętan

No explanation here.

As I say on the CC1 webpage(http://www.chesscomputeruk.com/html/fidelity_chess_challenger__cc1.html ) there was a debate about it on Kurt's Forum. Karsten Bauermeister (and others) tried to find the mathematical logic behind the serial numbers but was not able to at the time.

The 1000-2999 numbers look to be early ones, which is why I asked you about yours. Dick Schneiders (1171) had a very early one with plastic chess pieces, as seen on the box, and I think blue lettering on the instructions.

Perhaps with 37 serial numbers rather than the 14 they originally collected some clever person could now crack the code?  :-

Archaelogical regards
Mike
« Last Edit: May 2, 2008, 06:50PM by spacious_mind » Report to moderator Logged
Mike Watters
Hero Member
*****

Offline

Posts: 1605



Another day, another blunder.

View Profile WWW E-Mail
Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
« Reply #4 on: May 2, 2008, 09:55AM »
Reply with quote

Hello Ga√ętan

No explanation here.

As I say on the CC1 webpage(http://www.chesscomputeruk.com/html/fidelity_chess_challenger__cc1.html ) there was a debate about it on Kurt's Forum. Karsten Bauermeister (and others) tried to find the mathematical logic behind the serial numbers but was not able to at the time.

The 1000-2999 numbers look to be early ones, which is why I asked you about yours. Dick Schneiders (1171) had a very early one with plastic chess pieces, as seen on the box, and I think blue lettering on the instructions.

Perhaps with 37 serial numbers rather than the 14 they originally collected some clever person could now crack the code? 

Archaelogical regards
Mike
Report to moderator Logged
gaetanpaca
Newbie
*

Offline

Posts: 23

I love Boardnation!

View Profile E-Mail
Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
« Reply #5 on: May 2, 2008, 08:04AM »
Reply with quote

Hello Mike,

It seems that only one thousand chess challenger 1 have been built. In the list we can find serial numbers from 1002 to 36746 (I think the 852194 one is a mistake). 36746 less 1002 equal 35744 units ??
Do you have an explanation ?

Best regards

Ga√ętan
Report to moderator Logged

Ga√ętan
gaetanpaca
Newbie
*

Offline

Posts: 23

I love Boardnation!

View Profile E-Mail
Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
« Reply #6 on: May 2, 2008, 06:51AM »
Reply with quote

Hello Mike,

Sorry, nothing on it indicate a date .

Best regards.
Ga√ętan
Report to moderator Logged

Ga√ętan
Mike Watters
Hero Member
*****

Offline

Posts: 1605



Another day, another blunder.

View Profile WWW E-Mail
Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
« Reply #7 on: May 2, 2008, 12:35AM »
Reply with quote

Hello Ga√ętan

Many thanks for the information.
The list is updated.

It looked a nice early one on the Ebay auction. Is there anything on it to indicate the date it was manufactured or first sold?

All the best
Mike

Report to moderator Logged
gaetanpaca
Newbie
*

Offline

Posts: 23

I love Boardnation!

View Profile E-Mail
Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
« Reply #8 on: May 1, 2008, 08:36AM »
Reply with quote

Hello Mike,

Great site!!
You can change "gaetanpaca‚ÄĚ(France)(27/03/08) from CC1 list "Ebay sales with serial numbers unknown " to 2367 Ga√ętan Vignola (France)

Best regards

Ga√ętan
Report to moderator Logged

Ga√ętan
Mike Watters
Hero Member
*****

Offline

Posts: 1605



Another day, another blunder.

View Profile WWW E-Mail
Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2008, 04:45AM »
Reply with quote


Quote from: Endspielgott on April 19, 2008, 11:09PM   

Looking forward to Paris now!

When will be the first dedicated tournament on British soil? 

All the best,

Christian


Christian it has taken thirty years for the British to get around to organising a dedicated tournament, with no sign of a breakthrough yet.

The V.9 will have it's work cut out in Paris. Hope you have a good time but stay off the beer, it sounds like you are getting too old for late nights now.

All the very best
Mike
Report to moderator Logged
Endspielgott
Moderator
Hero Member
*****

Offline

Posts: 656



I blunder Endgames.

View Profile E-Mail
Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2008, 11:09PM »
Reply with quote


Quote from: Mike Watters on April 14, 2008, 03:26AM   


How was Klingenberg? Did you win?

All the best
Mike


Hi Mike,

Klingenberg was hard because I arrived friday evening which was a mistake. I had to play chess with the Austrian Fraction just ¬ītill 3:00 a.m.
Drank a lot of beer too.
Imagine what I looked like the next morning
And there was the 100 moves game between my Elegance and the Excellence

The Elegance did well with 3 wins and 2 losses, 2 draw.
He produced entertaining games.

And finally I met a lot of nice people.

Looking forward to Paris now!

When will be the first dedicated tournament on British soil? 

All the best,

Christian
Report to moderator Logged
Sargon
Full Member
***

Offline

Posts: 223



I love Computerchess .

View Profile E-Mail
Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2008, 09:14AM »
Reply with quote

Hello All,

Damm i have bought a Diablo 68000 for just only 100 euro wich was defect, but Arno repaired it for 60 euro.
So 160 euro is not a bad price for a compleet Diablo i think.
Mine collection is now about 80 a 90 computers ,wich i can say very wanted and rare comp, are there in mine collection.
Mostly buyed by luck for a cheap price, like a Super 9 for 15 euro Sphinx 40 80 euro ,and so on
Keep on going here on this site.
I visit here many times, but not always writing here

Kind Regards,Hans van Mierlo
Report to moderator Logged
Mike Watters
Hero Member
*****

Offline

Posts: 1605



Another day, another blunder.

View Profile WWW E-Mail
Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2008, 03:26AM »
Reply with quote


Quote from: Endspielgott on April 13, 2008, 12:56PM   

Great site Mike!

Just one thing: Is the Diablo in the "rare" section because of the Fidelity pieces ? 

Christian


Christian

You miss nothing !!
Just for you I will put the correct pieces with it. But like you say it is not so rare now.

http://www.chesscomputeruk.com/html/novag_diablo.html

How was Klingenberg? Did you win?

All the best
Mike
Report to moderator Logged
Endspielgott
Moderator
Hero Member
*****

Offline

Posts: 656



I blunder Endgames.

View Profile E-Mail
Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2008, 12:56PM »
Reply with quote

Great site Mike!

Just one thing: Is the Diablo in the "rare" section because of the Fidelity pieces ? 

Christian
Report to moderator Logged
Jose
Full Member
***

Offline

Posts: 170



Time to play Chess!

View Profile WWW
Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2008, 07:29AM »
Reply with quote


Quote from: Mike Watters on April 12, 2008, 01:17AM   

Hi Guys

Many thanks for the encouraging comments.

Also thanks for the info Axel. List amended. Your cover is blown. 

Jos√© for a small fee I could move the Courier V to the top of the rare list and mention that there are only two (or is it three  ) examples known worldwide. A good day for eBaywatching. 

Best regards all
Mike




Hi Mike,

three is the correct number.
Thanks for your offer to set it on top your great list, but i think it is okay - it does not matter. 

Watching Ebay Regards
José
Report to moderator Logged
Mike Watters
Hero Member
*****

Offline

Posts: 1605



Another day, another blunder.

View Profile WWW E-Mail
Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2008, 01:17AM »
Reply with quote

Hi Guys

Many thanks for the encouraging comments.

Also thanks for the info Axel. List amended. Your cover is blown. 

Jos√© for a small fee I could move the Courier V to the top of the rare list and mention that there are only two (or is it three  ) examples known worldwide. A good day for eBaywatching. 

Best regards all
Mike

Report to moderator Logged
carterdickson
Jr. Member
**

Offline

Posts: 57



I love Boardnation!

View Profile
Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2008, 11:44PM »
Reply with quote

Nice done, Mike.
In my favourites too.

Etienne.
Report to moderator Logged
Alain Zanchetta
Administrator
*****

Offline

Posts: 818





View Profile WWW E-Mail
Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2008, 10:59PM »
Reply with quote

Hi Mike,

very interesting section, congratulations !!

best regards,
Alain
Report to moderator Logged
Brian
Newbie
*

Offline

Posts: 23

I love Boardnation!

View Profile
Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2008, 09:25PM »
Reply with quote

Hi Mike,

Great read I enjoyed it a lot.
Report to moderator Logged
Tom
Jr. Member
**

Offline

Posts: 89





View Profile WWW
Re:Rare Chess Computers - Website
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2008, 10:21AM »
Reply with quote

Great sites. I immediately added them to my favourites! When I saw the Chess Champion Super System III again I got really touched inside, because it was my first chess computer I really loved! I've always owned only few chess computers, but loved them like friends. I remember when I won against the CCSSIII I felt like little Bobby must have felt when he defeated his opponents at age 12 . Bobby was the reason why I bought this device then. I wanted to get into chess (at least a litte) in order to understand Bobby's games as far as I could understand them. Yes, your sites are really worth seeing.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2008, 10:23AM by Tom » Report to moderator Logged

The secret of freedom is courage!
(by Perikles, the great leader of Athens, 490-429 B.C.)
Pages: [1] 2 Reply Notify of replies Send the topic Print 
ę previous next Ľ
Jump to:  

Login with username, password and session length

Chess Computer Community
Get your Ad Free Message Board at Boardnation!   © 2013 Boardnation  Web hosting by Nubis