logo Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register.
December 6, 2019, 02:36PM
Home Help Search Login Register
News: Map of chess computer friends: http://www.frappr.com/chesscomputers

  Chess Computer Community
  General Category
  Discussions about Chess Computers
(Moderators: Endspielgott, Overtom, bobosse)
  Extremely short game between computers
« previous next »
Pages: [1] Reply Notify of replies Send the topic Print 
   Author  Topic: Extremely short game between computers  (Read 1842 times)
Overtom
Moderator
Co-admin
Hero Member
*****

Offline

Posts: 628



"Life is too short for Chess" (Lord Byron)

View Profile WWW E-Mail
Re:Extremely short game between computers
« on: May 23, 2008, 05:27AM »
Reply with quote

Hi Mike,

Sorry for the delay. My new toy (a tASC R30) has kept me rather busy.


Quote from: Mike Watters on May  5, 2008, 02:23AM   

Hello Tom

Firstly I didn't realise that Go was a Tandy trade mark.  Thanks for the info.

Secondly the Piccolo is a Kittinger program and the others as you say SciSys/Saitek. It always surprises me when chess computers from the mid 80s fall for Mate in One. These days they would probably say that the machine is programmed to throw in the odd blunder on that particular level. Back in the days of the Kasparov Plus they were all trying to play as strongly as possible (given weak hardware).

I do not know whether Saitek's are particularly vulnerable to an f7 attack, or you have a lot of Saitek's and f7 is often the Checkmate square in very short games. 

Blundering on regards
Mike

At the back of the GO compputers we read the name Intertan, which seems to be short for International Tandy.

As to the f7 feature, the (scarce) chess books that I read explicitly mention the weakness of f7 as probably THE trap to watch out for in many openings, especially the king's pawn ones. If a manufacturer wants to produce a cheap computer, they'll probably go for a brute force search since this requires as little ROM as possible. Or they can go for little or no knowledge of openings. Or they can economize on general chess knowledge (which saves ROM and necessity for faster hardware).

Anyway, I quite agree with you that it is the f7 weakness where we shall first find back signs of the manufacturer's attempts at optimizing their profits.

Best regards,

tom


Quote from: Tom on May 22, 2008, 11:15PM   

Nice games which clearly show to me the quality and playing strength of cheap electronic chessboards.

If I were Kasparov I would pay a little bit more attention to where my name is used.

The games also prove to me that there is no reason to wish those times back when chess computers in general were of that low "strength" about twenty years ago.


Hello Tom,

It must have made thousands of weak chessplayers very happy to finally find an opponent (named Kasparov!) that they could beat  If I were Garrik Kimovich Weinstein (aka Garry kasparov), I would feel great to have made so many people happy and earned quite a few bucks in the process.

Best regards,

tom
Report to moderator Logged
Tom
Jr. Member
**

Offline

Posts: 89





View Profile WWW
Re:Extremely short game between computers
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2008, 11:15PM »
Reply with quote

Nice games which clearly show to me the quality and playing strength of cheap electronic chessboards.

If I were Kasparov I would pay a little bit more attention to where my name is used.

The games also prove to me that there is no reason to wish those times back when chess computers in general were of that low "strength" about twenty years ago.

Report to moderator Logged

The secret of freedom is courage!
(by Perikles, the great leader of Athens, 490-429 B.C.)
Mike Watters
Hero Member
*****

Offline

Posts: 1605



Another day, another blunder.

View Profile WWW E-Mail
Re:Extremely short game between computers
« Reply #2 on: May 5, 2008, 02:23AM »
Reply with quote


Quote from: Overtom on May  3, 2008, 03:26AM   

In an earlier message in this thread I implicitly reported that the three shortest games played against chess computers of the Overtom Site were these three (each with 10 moves):

http://overtom.nl/chescom/EngNovPic.html
http://overtom.nl/chescom/EngKasExp.html
http://overtom.nl/chescom/EngKaspPlus.html

Today, a new computer arrived at the museum, the Go Chess Companion 1200. As you may know, Go is a trade mark used by Tandy.



This computer broke the old record with two moves. The game went like this:

White: Fritz 8, 1 ply
Black: Go Companion 1200 (level B6)
1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Ne4 3.d4 e6 4.Nh3 c5 5.d5 exd5 6.Qxd5 f5 7.Bc4 Nc6 8.Qf7#

If you want to see an animation of this game and have Java installed on your computer, you may visit http://overtom.nl/chescom/EngGoComp1200.html

The only thing I'm still wondering about is whether it's a coincidence that all these computers were made by Scisys/saitek

With best regards,

tom



Hello Tom

Firstly I didn't realise that Go was a Tandy trade mark.  Thanks for the info.

Secondly the Piccolo is a Kittinger program and the others as you say SciSys/Saitek. It always surprises me when chess computers from the mid 80s fall for Mate in One. These days they would probably say that the machine is programmed to throw in the odd blunder on that particular level. Back in the days of the Kasparov Plus they were all trying to play as strongly as possible (given weak hardware).

I do not know whether Saitek's are particularly vulnerable to an f7 attack, or you have a lot of Saitek's and f7 is often the Checkmate square in very short games. 

Blundering on regards
Mike


Report to moderator Logged
Overtom
Moderator
Co-admin
Hero Member
*****

Offline

Posts: 628



"Life is too short for Chess" (Lord Byron)

View Profile WWW E-Mail
Re:Extremely short game between computers
« Reply #3 on: May 4, 2008, 07:19AM »
Reply with quote

Hi Nick,

Quote from: spacious_mind on May  3, 2008, 04:34AM   

Hi Tom,
Thanks for your wonderful reports and Blogs.  They are always so interesting to read.
I have a question for you.  Do you know if Gakken and Radioshack 1100L are 100% the same.  They look the same, but do they also play the same?
Thanks
Nick

To be honest, I never tried this. So I couldn't be sure. But considering the fact that Tandy/Radio shack never designed their own computers and always used the computers made by Scisys, Saitek and these days by Excalibur, I wouldn't be surprised if the two computers you mention are the same.

Best regards,

tom
Report to moderator Logged
spacious_mind
Sr. Member
****

Offline

Posts: 349



HEY FRITZ!..... SLOW DOWN!!!!!

View Profile E-Mail
Re:Extremely short game between computers
« Reply #4 on: May 3, 2008, 04:34AM »
Reply with quote

Hi Tom,

Thanks for your wonderful reports and Blogs.  They are always so interesting to read.

I have a question for you.  Do you know if Gakken and Radioshack 1100L are 100% the same.  They look the same, but do they also play the same?

Thanks

Nick
Report to moderator Logged
Overtom
Moderator
Co-admin
Hero Member
*****

Offline

Posts: 628



"Life is too short for Chess" (Lord Byron)

View Profile WWW E-Mail
Re:Extremely short game between computers
« Reply #5 on: May 3, 2008, 03:26AM »
Reply with quote

In an earlier message in this thread I implicitly reported that the three shortest games played against chess computers of the Overtom Site were these three (each with 10 moves):

http://overtom.nl/chescom/EngNovPic.html
http://overtom.nl/chescom/EngKasExp.html
http://overtom.nl/chescom/EngKaspPlus.html

Today, a new computer arrived at the museum, the Go Chess Companion 1200. As you may know, Go is a trade mark used by Tandy.



This computer broke the old record with two moves. The game went like this:

White: Fritz 8, 1 ply
Black: Go Companion 1200 (level B6)
1.e4 Nf6 2.e5 Ne4 3.d4 e6 4.Nh3 c5 5.d5 exd5 6.Qxd5 f5 7.Bc4 Nc6 8.Qf7#

If you want to see an animation of this game and have Java installed on your computer, you may visit http://overtom.nl/chescom/EngGoComp1200.html

The only thing I'm still wondering about is whether it's a coincidence that all these computers were made by Scisys/saitek

With best regards,

tom
« Last Edit: May 3, 2008, 03:34AM by Overtom » Report to moderator Logged
Overtom
Moderator
Co-admin
Hero Member
*****

Offline

Posts: 628



"Life is too short for Chess" (Lord Byron)

View Profile WWW E-Mail
Re:Extremely short game between computers
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2007, 01:50PM »
Reply with quote

During the last month I've been busy playing hundreds of games between the computers of the Overtom Collection. But yesterday the work was completed.

The only computers without games are the ones that are defective in one way or other.

The production of files is automated these days, so I can easily provide a list of the shortest games, some of which are quite amusing:

http://overtom.nl/chescom/EngCXMad.html (13)
http://overtom.nl/chescom/EngFidCPal.html (14)
http://overtom.nl/chescom/EngFidDes15.html (15)
http://overtom.nl/chescom/vCCmk2.html (16)
http://overtom.nl/chescom/EngNovDisMC.html (15)
http://overtom.nl/chescom/EngNovPic.html (10)
http://overtom.nl/chescom/EngNovTop.html (12)
http://overtom.nl/chescom/EngKaspAria.html (13)
http://overtom.nl/chescom/EngScExCh.html (11)
http://overtom.nl/chescom/EngKasExp.html (10)
http://overtom.nl/chescom/EngKaspPlus.html (10)
http://overtom.nl/chescom/EngKasPoc.html (16)
http://overtom.nl/chescom/EngBorDipl.html (16)
http://overtom.nl/chescom/EngcglGM.html (15)
http://overtom.nl/chescom/EngComCM.html (11)
http://overtom.nl/chescom/EngGakken.html (11)
http://overtom.nl/chescom/EngGemPlus.html (11)
http://overtom.nl/chescom/EngKarMil.html (14)
http://overtom.nl/chescom/EngSaturn.html (14)

Enjoy!

tom
« Last Edit: May 3, 2008, 03:36AM by Overtom » Report to moderator Logged
bobosse
Moderator
Full Member
*****

Offline

Posts: 186



View Profile WWW E-Mail
Re:Extremely short game between computers
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2007, 03:26AM »
Reply with quote

Good idea and impressive results for Fritz

A small question:

From the Fritz side, the level is one ply.
How much time do you give to your chess computers ?
Report to moderator Logged
Overtom
Moderator
Co-admin
Hero Member
*****

Offline

Posts: 628



"Life is too short for Chess" (Lord Byron)

View Profile WWW E-Mail
Re:Extremely short game between computers
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2007, 03:04AM »
Reply with quote

As I reported before, the Overtom site is in the process of adding sample games to every (working) chess computer in the collection.

So far, a hundred games have been played, all against Fritz-one-ply. And although one ply doesn't sound like much, this weakened Fritz managed to checkmate fifteen computers in less than twenty moves.

For those who are interested, these are the fifteen shortest games that were played so far:

Novag Piccolo (10)
Executive Chess (11)
Commodore ChessMate (11)
Disney Magic Castle (15)
CGL Grandmaster (15)
Chess Champ. Mk 2 (16)
Chess Trainer (17)
Lexibook Trav.Ch. (18)
Acetronic Traveller (18)
CXG Seville (18)
Junior Master Chess (18)
Radio Shack 1100L (19)
Computachess II (19)
CXG Enemy (19)
SC2 (19)

If you have Java on your computer, it should be possible to see animated games by clicking the links above.

Enjoy!

tom


Report to moderator Logged
Overtom
Moderator
Co-admin
Hero Member
*****

Offline

Posts: 628



"Life is too short for Chess" (Lord Byron)

View Profile WWW E-Mail
Re:Extremely short game between computers
« Reply #9 on: October 3, 2007, 12:35AM »
Reply with quote


Quote from: bobosse on October  1, 2007, 03:43AM   

In my case (3mn per move), it resigned before the last move (one move before).

It probably took a long time for him to find out it was going to be mated

Not a very generous computer, by the way, not allowing you the satisfaction of giving him the coup de grĂ¢ce

Best regards,

tom
« Last Edit: October 10, 2007, 02:46AM by Overtom » Report to moderator Logged
bobosse
Moderator
Full Member
*****

Offline

Posts: 186



View Profile WWW E-Mail
Re:Extremely short game between computers
« Reply #10 on: October 1, 2007, 03:43AM »
Reply with quote

In my case (3mn per move), it resigned before the last move (one move before).
Report to moderator Logged
Overtom
Moderator
Co-admin
Hero Member
*****

Offline

Posts: 628



"Life is too short for Chess" (Lord Byron)

View Profile WWW E-Mail
Re:Extremely short game between computers
« Reply #11 on: October 1, 2007, 01:49AM »
Reply with quote


Quote from: bobosse on September 30, 2007, 01:34PM   

Congratulations.
In my trial against this chess computer, I won only in 14 moves 
http://electronicchess.free.fr/parties/executive.html

Very nice game!

By the way, you know what I found most surprising? That it took ten seconds before Executive realized that it was mated

I understand you gave it three minutes per move. I wonder how long it took Executive in that game to find out it was mated

Best regards,

tom
Report to moderator Logged
bobosse
Moderator
Full Member
*****

Offline

Posts: 186



View Profile WWW E-Mail
Re:Extremely short game between computers
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2007, 01:34PM »
Reply with quote

Congratulations.
In my trial against this chess computer, I won only in 14 moves 
http://electronicchess.free.fr/parties/executive.html
« Last Edit: September 30, 2007, 01:37PM by bobosse » Report to moderator Logged
Overtom
Moderator
Co-admin
Hero Member
*****

Offline

Posts: 628



"Life is too short for Chess" (Lord Byron)

View Profile WWW E-Mail
Extremely short game between computers
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2007, 04:48AM »
Reply with quote

I was tempted to put the following after Tommy's wonderful story about a very short game. I'll tell you why. Yesterday I witnessed the shortest games between computers I've ever seen.

Those who regularly visit the Overtom Chess Computer Museum may have seen that I'm adding example games (in Java) of every computer in the Museum to their descriptions. Unlike Tommy (who programmed the excellent Kanguruh), I haven't yet managed to make a working chess program. So I'm using Fritz-one-ply as a standard, and for the animations I use a home-made applet. By the way, many computers are defeated by Fritz-one-ply.

But the worst defeat so far was suffered by Scisys Executive (which dates from 1988)

Scisys Executive Chess

This computer was checkmated in no more than eleven moves!

The game went like this:

1. e4 e6 2. d4 Bb4+ 3. c3 Be7 4. Nf3 Nc6 5. Nbd2 d5 6. Bd3 dxe4 7. Bxe4 f5 8. Bxc6+ bxc6 9. Ne5 c5 10. Qh5+ Kf8 11. Qf7+ mate

If you want, you can read more and see an animation of the game at: http://overtom.nl/weblog/30SEP07.html

Enjoy!

tom
« Last Edit: September 30, 2007, 04:49AM by Overtom » Report to moderator Logged
Pages: [1] Reply Notify of replies Send the topic Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Login with username, password and session length

Chess Computer Community
Get your Ad Free Message Board at Boardnation!   © 2013 Boardnation  Web hosting by Nubis