logo Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register.
October 19, 2019, 11:53PM
Home Help Search Login Register
News: Visit a member's site: http://zanchetta.net/echecs/  (Alain Zanchetta)

  Chess Computer Community
  General Category
  Discussions about Chess Computers
(Moderators: Endspielgott, Overtom, bobosse)
  Fritz Chess for Nintendo Wii or DS
ę previous next Ľ
Pages: [1] Reply Notify of replies Send the topic Print 
   Author  Topic: Fritz Chess for Nintendo Wii or DS  (Read 1246 times)
JonP01
Newbie
*

Offline

Posts: 28

I love Boardnation!

View Profile
Re:Fritz Chess for Nintendo Wii or DS
« on: October 11, 2009, 08:22PM »
Reply with quote

Incidentally, don't believe the rating estimates of Chessmaster for DS either. It's only about 1100 - 1200 ELO at best. Infact I could not even find enough rated programs in my posession sufficiently weak so as to accurately rate it - it really is pathetically weak.

Of all the programs for Nintendo consoles thus far, Fritz is far and away the strongest by a huge margin (2047 ELO), followed by Chessmaster for Gameboy Advance (perhaps low 1800s ELO - which will also work on a DS Lite console but not a DSi console). There is also Chessmaster for Gameboy Colour - perhaps high 1300s to low 1400s ELO.

All the others are too weak for anyone but the weakest human players to consider.

Incidentally, one possible advantage of the new DSi console is that you can buy programs for it similar to the way you can for iPhone - there is a download store that sells so-called DSiWare (payware programs that can be downloaded directly to the console via a WiFi connection).

I have written to a couple of current engine developers (Richard Lang and Mark Uniake) letting them know about this, since they currently have their programs available for a number of platforms including iPhone.

Were we to ever get a DSiWare engine, we could expect it to nudge the 2500 ELO barrier and thus leave Fritz in the dust. But in the meantime, Fritz with it's levels as per my post above is the strongest option on gaming consoles.
Report to moderator Logged
JonP01
Newbie
*

Offline

Posts: 28

I love Boardnation!

View Profile
Re:Fritz Chess for Nintendo Wii or DS
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2009, 05:10PM »
Reply with quote

I own both versions of Fritz Chess for Nintendo DS and Wii, though I have not had time to accurately appraise the Wii version yet.

I have, however, extensively tested Fritz for Nintendo DS, including having it play 30 slow tournament games against the Mephisto MMV (Schroeder) and Mephisto Maimi (Morsch).

At the conclusion of this 30 game match, Fritz for Nintendo DS emerged with a rating of 2047 ELO. This rating is consistent with the "old" SSDF listing, so if you want to convert it to the current one, the rating is 1947 ELO. In arriving at the 2047 ELO rating, I contracted the rating difference between Fritz and the other two machines by 25%. So on a pure machine versus machine basis only, the rating would actually be 2088 ELO (or 1988 ELO on the new list). But the 2047 ELO more accurately reflects how it would perform against humans.

The issue with Fritz for DS is that the level algorythms are either buggy or intentionally just plain wierd. Even though you can set the level from anything from a slow tournament game to a blitz game, it still moves almost immediately regardless. I would estimate it's playing strength on these "default" levels to be only around 1100 - 1400 ELO at best!

However, if you set the levels as per my indications below, it will play at it's full strength of 2047 ELO according to the stated time limits. All the settings below require that the game be set to "Long", Hours to "23" and Minutes to "59":

Response Time   Moves
15 secs / move   75
20 secs / move   60
30 secs / move   40
1 minute / move   9
Tournament¬†¬†¬†      1


One also needs to be aware that Fritz for DS is based on the Fritz 10 engine, so it has a lot of chess knowledge compared to old versions of Fritz. This has the effect of making it relatively weaker at the faster time limits. This is why I do not advise playing it at less than 15 seconds per move, as below that level it can even ocassionally fall for such things as 8 ply traps where it loses a piece, etc.

In defence of the program though, the Fritz 10 engine was written specifically to work on PC computers, which have so much more processing power than these consoles that there is simply no comparison. Being optimised to work on PCs, Morsch (I speculate) could afford to add a lot of ches knowledge, since with a fast PC it would not slow it down too much tactically. But on a lowly console, the added knowledge really hurts at the fast time limits. It becomes less of an issue at 30 seconds per move.

One also needs to be aware that the program is aimed at social players and the program does not show any analysis or search depth at all.

Another thing to note is that unfortunately the program does not use hash tables. This, in conbination with the fact that it's time allocations per move seem to be more based on the number of pieces on the board, means that it's playing strength is possibly around 70 - 120 points lower than it could be (It's endgame is actually around the same strength as the old, pre hash table Mephistos).

Incidentally, in the short tests I have performed on the Wii version, it does not have the level issues that the DS version has. However, it also does not seem to play any stronger than the DS version either when they are given the same amount of time to move. This seems strange, as the processor in the Wii is more than ten times the speed of the DS.

So I am speculating that somehow the engine has been throttled in such a way that the playing strength is kept just over the 2000 ELO mark, despite the advertised strengths of 2320 ELO for the DS version and 3000 ELO for the Wii version.

If you want to get a rough idea of how well these engines play, then set your PC based version of Fritz 10 to about 1 second per move (at full strength on a low powered PC) and get rid of the hash tables. It will still be a bit stronger than the console versions that way because it will still have a meg of hash tables, but you will still get a basic idea of how it plays in the opening and middle game. 
« Last Edit: October 11, 2009, 05:34PM by JonP01 » Report to moderator Logged
chubbyupchuck
Global Moderator
*****

Offline

Posts: 36



View Profile
Re:Fritz Chess for Nintendo Wii or DS
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2009, 12:45PM »
Reply with quote

Hey Marko,

I have Fritz on the DS.  My impression is that it plays a slightly stronger game than Chessmaster, although somewhat more slowly.  Personally I prefer Chessmaster.

See my comments here...

http://users.boardnation.com/~chesscomputers/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=1839

I have not tried the Wii version.

Hope this helps

chubby
Report to moderator Logged
marko
Full Member
***

Offline

Posts: 187



How do you make a computer blink?

View Profile
Fritz Chess for Nintendo Wii or DS
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2009, 11:07AM »
Reply with quote

Has anyone tried Fritz Chess for Nintendo Wii or DS? See:

http://www.deepsilver.co.uk/nc/us/main/games/game-view/detail/fritz-wii-1.html?tx_mmproducts_pi1%5Bsyscode%5D=NWI

Best regards,
Marko
Report to moderator Logged
Pages: [1] Reply Notify of replies Send the topic Print 
ę previous next Ľ
Jump to:  

Login with username, password and session length

Chess Computer Community
Get your Ad Free Message Board at Boardnation!   © 2013 Boardnation  Web hosting by Nubis