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  How many Allegros?
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   Author  Topic: How many Allegros?  (Read 1102 times)
Robert Weck
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Re:How many Allegros?
« on: April 9, 2010, 04:59AM »
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Quote from: Selective Brute on April  8, 2010, 01:01PM   


So, if I wanted to get a tabletop computer that have the Secondo program, I should search for an Allegro 4. Is it easy to find? How about the Uno? It is from the same year as the Secondo and Allegro 4 and, according to Tom Luif's site, do have a 4KB ROM and 256 bytes RAM like the Secondo.

I have a Secondo without manual and Tom sent me the manual for the Uno and it seems to be the same program. Uno <-> Secondo; sounds logical... 

But i have never seen a Novag Uno for sale (but some Secondos)


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Re:How many Allegros?
« Reply #1 on: April 8, 2010, 01:01PM »
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My Secondo has a different program than my Allegro. The difference is not only in the amount of levels (16 vs. 8 ) but also in power consumption (max 900mW vs. max 75mW (on the back of my Secondo it actually reads "POWER CONSUMPTION 75mV", not 75mW) and the presence of an opening library. Also, it seems that the 16 levels of the Secondo is not derived only by varying the thinking time like it is on the Allegro: if a recall correctly (I cannot find the manual just now), the last of the beginner levels (level 4) is using a bit more thinking time than the easiest of the normal levels (level 5). That could mean that the beginner levels have a more simple evaluation function than the normal levels. So, in conclusion, the Secondo has a more  developed program. According to schach-computer.info the Secondo has a 4KB ROM and the Presto (that is practically identical to my Allegro) do have a 2KB ROM.

Maybe I did not understand correctly the information on this page. If only the Allegro 4 do have the Secondo program, would it not be clearer if the page for the Allegro would have the information of the normal Allegro and not of the Allegro 4?

So, if I wanted to get a tabletop computer that have the Secondo program, I should search for an Allegro 4. Is it easy to find? How about the Uno? It is from the same year as the Secondo and Allegro 4 and, according to Tom Luif's site, do have a 4KB ROM and 256 bytes RAM like the Secondo.

What about the Novag Accord?
« Last Edit: April 8, 2010, 01:01PM by Selective Brute » Report to moderator Logged
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Re:How many Allegros?
« Reply #2 on: April 6, 2010, 07:37AM »
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Quote from: Selective Brute on April  6, 2010, 06:33AM   

... at least they are both very pretty



I feel so too. US-made devices look quite pretty. Only their strength could be a bit better ... 

Regards,  Tom
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Selective Brute
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Re:How many Allegros?
« Reply #3 on: April 6, 2010, 06:33AM »
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Ok, I played an identical opening with the Presto and the Allegro: It was a identical game for the c. 20 moves I played except for the first and second moves being in different order. These computers do not have a opening book and they played practically identical games. So now it seems for certain that I have two of instances of the same program ... at least they are both very pretty

I'm a bit surprised about this. I had the impression that the easiest playing level was clearly easier on Allegro than on the Presto (I actually lost my first game against the Presto and decided that it can wait for its turn until I have gotten a bit stronger. The easiest level on the Allegro felt like a "Fun level" and I have played already three fast games against it without any real possibility of losing) . Maybe this impression was due to my playing getting a bit stronger in the time between getting these machines... 
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Re:How many Allegros?
« Reply #4 on: April 6, 2010, 05:37AM »
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Quote from: Selective Brute on April  6, 2010, 12:42AM   

What does this mean:
Gemäß Ketterling in der Rochade sind folgende Computer programmgleich
Piccolo = Micro II = Micro III = Presto = Allegro Rochade 3/86, S.32)

"According to Ketterling in the Rochade (a german chess magazine) the following computers have identical programs"

But i would not be sure about Allegro and Secondo: at many Novag computers you can find, that the successor version has the same old program (maybe a little modified), but more levels than its predecessor (Opal=16 levels, Opal II 64 and Opal plus 128 levels; Emerald classic 56 levels, Emerald classic plus 128 levels)

I don't have an Allegro, so i can't check it. maybe you could try to play syncroneous games: give both computers the same level and opening, disable random (if possible) and let them play against themself...


best regards,
Robert
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How many Allegros?
« Reply #5 on: April 6, 2010, 12:42AM »
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I bought a few weeks ago a Novag Allegro. Having read the Schach-computer.info page about the computer, I expected to get a tabletop computer that has the same program that is in the Secondo. It do not have the same program. The Secondo do have 16 levels of play and it remembers the position of a game when switched off and on again. The Allegro has 8 levels of play and do reset the game when switched off. In this regard, it do behave similarly to the Presto, but the levels don't seem to be the same.

So how many Allegros are there? Is there a 8MHz "Secondo version" and a 15MHz "Piccolo version"? Tom Luif's page do also say that "the same model seems to exist at 2MHz", so is there also a 2MHz "Piccolo version".

(I got the Piccolo reference from this thread at the Schachcomputer.info forum but I don't understand German. What does this mean:
Gemäß Ketterling in der Rochade sind folgende Computer programmgleich
Piccolo = Micro II = Micro III = Presto = Allegro Rochade 3/86, S.32)

More generally, could some kind person shed some light on the relationships between the weaker Novag models?
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