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  Resurrection
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   Author  Topic: Resurrection  (Read 9294 times)
Ruud Martin
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Re:Resurrection
« Reply #80 on: September 28, 2005, 01:59AM »
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Robert,

Fruit '05 was sent to me by Fabien, and Fabien has given permission to use this only in the Resurrection. Publishing games is in my opinion allowed. I want to indicate that games where Resurrection is faulty in time management should not be published.

Ruffian (X) is the same engine, only the information is presented in the old style. When you select Ruffian without the X you will see the new style display.

The #all will be considerd in a next release.

Ruud


Quote from: Robert Weck on September 28, 2005, 01:20AM   

Hello Ruud,

Quote from: Phoenix Chess on September 27, 2005, 09:53AM   

Guys,

Using Zmodem protocol instead of Zmodem with crash recovery seems to do the trick. With this sending goes better.

Ruud


First, let me thank you for the new engines! I think, we are the first, who get Fruit '05, as it is not released for the public (and will not be free!)

Is Ruffian (X) an experimental version from you or from the author Per-Ola Valfridsson?

Here i still have small problems with sending. Works only at the second try. But doesn't matter, i know it and so it's no problem for me!

I'm afraid, the biggest problem with updating sits in front of my computer! 
At the first time i forgot to execute "Extra", because it wasn't mentioned in the manual! Then i remembered, that you had sent us a mail about this... 

I was only able to play one quick 30min/99moves match Fruit '05 - Star Sapphire. Fruit came not good out of the library (one pawn less) but turned it into a convincing victory!

Do we now have permission to publish tests with Fruit 2.1?


Will you consider my suggestions (# moves for "all"), that i mailed you?


best regards,
Robert
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Re:Resurrection
« Reply #81 on: September 28, 2005, 01:20AM »
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Hello Ruud,

Quote from: Phoenix Chess on September 27, 2005, 09:53AM   

Guys,

Using Zmodem protocol instead of Zmodem with crash recovery seems to do the trick. With this sending goes better.

Ruud


First, let me thank you for the new engines! I think, we are the first, who get Fruit '05, as it is not released for the public (and will not be free!)

Is Ruffian (X) an experimental version from you or from the author Per-Ola Valfridsson?

Here i still have small problems with sending. Works only at the second try. But doesn't matter, i know it and so it's no problem for me!

I'm afraid, the biggest problem with updating sits in front of my computer! 
At the first time i forgot to execute "Extra", because it wasn't mentioned in the manual! Then i remembered, that you had sent us a mail about this... 

I was only able to play one quick 30min/99moves match Fruit '05 - Star Sapphire. Fruit came not good out of the library (one pawn less) but turned it into a convincing victory!

Do we now have permission to publish tests with Fruit 2.1?


Will you consider my suggestions (# moves for "all"), that i mailed you?


best regards,
Robert
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Re:Resurrection
« Reply #82 on: September 27, 2005, 10:08AM »
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Quote from: Mike Watters on September 27, 2005, 09:47AM   


Have you had the opportunity to try Fruit yet?

Updating Resurrection is a bit hit and miss for me. Sometimes the files are sent and received and sometimes they are not. And I have no idea why. Does anyone else get this?

Mike


Mike,

I do not have much time for the moment  I just tested it once, it was an interesting game but I screw it up.
But I like the playing style.

For me the updating process went smoothely so far without problems.

Christian
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Ruud Martin
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Re:Resurrection
« Reply #83 on: September 27, 2005, 09:53AM »
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Guys,

Using Zmodem protocol instead of Zmodem with crash recovery seems to do the trick. With this sending goes better.

Ruud
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Ruud Martin

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Mike Watters
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Re:Resurrection
« Reply #84 on: September 27, 2005, 09:47AM »
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Christian

Thanks. I think Fruit went easy on me. At the first sign of a threat I would have got all jittery.

Have you had the opportunity to try Fruit yet?

Updating Resurrection is a bit hit and miss for me. Sometimes the files are sent and received and sometimes they are not. And I have no idea why. Does anyone else get this?

Mike
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Re:Resurrection
« Reply #85 on: September 27, 2005, 08:41AM »
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Quote from: Mike Watters on September 27, 2005, 08:01AM   

Somehow I managed to come out of the opening a pawn up, and seeing the chance to trade off several pieces I did that and settled for opposite coloured bishops and a draw by repetition. A cowardly act but it isn't every day you get something out of a game against these beasts.


Mike,

the is nothing cowardly in this game
You played very well, but the advantage was hard to change in to a full point. If you handn't exchanged the knight with his black bishop, the two bishops together would have eventually caused you trouble in connection with a black king on d5.

Christian
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Re:Resurrection
« Reply #86 on: September 27, 2005, 08:01AM »
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Resurrection has been further upgraded to include a fifth engine. This is another version of Fruit, this time the version which came second to Zappa at the recent World Chess Computer Championship 2005 held at Reykjavik in August.

Just to test it out I tried a 15 secs a move game expecting to get slaughtered. This is what happened :-

[Event "15 secs per move"]
[Site "Milton Keynes"]
[Date "2005.09.27"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Watters, Michael"]
[Black "Resurrection Fruit 2005"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "A07"]
1. Nf3 d5 2. g3 c6 3. Bg2
Bg4 4. O-O Nd7 5. d3 Ngf6 6. Nbd2 e5 7. b3 Bd6 8. Bb2 O-O 9. c4 Qa5 10. Qc2
Rfc8 11. a3 Qa6 12. b4 h6 13. Rfe1 Re8 14. e4 Rad8 15. cxd5 cxd5 16. exd5 Nxd5
17. Qc4 Qxc4 18. Nxc4 Be7 19. Nfxe5 Nxe5 20. Nxe5 Bf5 21. Bxd5 Rxd5 22. d4 f6
23. Nf3 Kf7 24. Re3 Rdd8 25. Rae1 Bd6 26. Rxe8 Rxe8 27. Rxe8 Kxe8 28. Nd2 Be6
29. f4 Kd7 30. Ne4 Bf5 31. Nxd6 Kxd6 32. Kf2 Kd5 33. Ke3 Kc4 34. Kd2 Kb3 35.
Bc1 Kc4 36. Bb2 Kb3 37. Bc1 Kc4 38. Bb2 1/2-1/2

Somehow I managed to come out of the opening a pawn up, and seeing the chance to trade off several pieces I did that and settled for opposite coloured bishops and a draw by repetition. A cowardly act but it isn't every day you get something out of a game against these beasts.

A more worthy match up was Fruit 2005 against the Tasc R30 :-

[Event "Game in 30 mins "]
[Site "Milton Keynes"]
[Date "2005.09.27"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Resurrection Fruit 2005"]
[Black "Tasc R30 v2.5"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "D07"]

1. Nf3 d5 2. d4 Nc6 3. c4 Bg4 4. cxd5 Bxf3
5. gxf3 Qxd5 6. e3 e5 7. Nc3 Bb4 8. Bd2 Bxc3 9. bxc3 exd4 {(Fruit out of book)}
10. cxd4 Nge7 11. Rg1 {(Tasc out of book)} O-O 12. Qb1 Rab8 13. Qe4 Qd6
14. f4 Rfe8 15. Be2 Ng6 16. Qg2 Nxd4 17. exd4 Qxd4 18. Rc1 Rxe2+ 19. Kxe2 Rd8
20. Be3 Qb2+ 21. Kf1 Qb5+ 22. Ke1 Qb4+ 23. Kf1 Qb5+ 24. Ke1 Qb4+ 25. Kf1 Qb5+
1/2-1/2

Again a quick draw by repetition.

I shall be putting Fruit 2005 through its paces against the Tasc R30, Mephisto 68030 London and anything else which will give it a game over the next few days. The expectation is that Resurrection Fruit 2005 will finally shake off the opposition to become clear strongest ever dedicated chess computer. We shall see.

Mike


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Re:Resurrection
« Reply #87 on: September 21, 2005, 03:51PM »
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No problem Ruud! I knew it wouldn't take long 
Keep me in your list for a possible-hopeful 2nd batch

Best reagards,

Ismenio
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Resurrection Sold
« Reply #88 on: September 20, 2005, 11:29PM »
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Ismenio and friends,

The Resurrection is sold.

Ismenio, i am sorry...

Ruud
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Re:Resurrection
« Reply #89 on: September 20, 2005, 04:57AM »
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Great offer Ruud!!!

The chance of a lifetime! I myself would like to have it but Ill have to check a few things first. Please keep us updated if its no longer available!
If I could only see this was coming!

Does anyone want to buy something from my collection to help me raise funds for this?

Best regards!

Ismenio
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Resurrection, there is one still available
« Reply #90 on: September 20, 2005, 02:43AM »
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Friends,

One of the 25 modules has become available. The buyer has told me this, so the reservation has been cancelled.

The first one who sends me an e-mail and who can agree upon the price will be the future owner of this module.

Ruud Martin
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Re:Resurrection
« Reply #91 on: September 14, 2005, 05:01AM »
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Quote from: Mike Watters on September 13, 2005, 02:13PM   


So what was it you were supposed to be learning while you were looking at those Big  Red  Buttons
......and plotting? 



Mike,

we were supposed to get rid of the need to push these buttons. Apparently people are attracted by things which are forbidden, and by letting them do these forbidden things once the instructor thought this might ease their pain

Christian
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Re:Resurrection
« Reply #92 on: September 13, 2005, 02:13PM »
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Quote:
Mike,

this reminds me at my time at the university...at the laboratory on each wall there were several BIGREDBUTTONS (immediate shutdown of power) which should NEVER be pushed because the results of everybodys work would have been gone.

So, as I went hte first time in the lab (together with the other beginners), the guy who was resposible made us push all the REDBUTTONS as often as we wanted.

By doing this he made sure that we wouldn't feel the need to do this ever again...

He wasn' right but it was a nice attempt.

So, Mike, just go ahead and push all the buttons you can find

Christian

Christian

So what was it you were supposed to be learning while you were looking at those Big  Red  Buttons
......and plotting? 

Hans wouldn't tell me what he had discovered in his Fruit testing. Sworn to secrecy  . So I have to push all the buttons and find out for myself. Don't I?

Is it correct that you can save games but not load them yet? Also I am not so good at knowing when I have left a menu option and when I haven't. Is that just me?

Testing......testing.....testing
Mike
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Re:Resurrection
« Reply #93 on: September 13, 2005, 05:37AM »
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Quote from: Mike Watters on September 13, 2005, 01:21AM   

Hi All

You are advised to skip this section unless you are completely crazy
about computer chess.

Here I give you another chance to skip the section, as you should not
be reading this ...   


Mike,

this reminds me at my time at the university...at the laboratory on each wall there were several BIGREDBUTTONS (immediate shutdown of power) which should NEVER be pushed because the results of everybodys work would have been gone.

So, as I went hte first time in the lab (together with the other beginners), the guy who was resposible made us push all the REDBUTTONS as often as we wanted.

By doing this he made sure that we wouldn't feel the need to do this ever again...

He wasn' right but it was a nice attempt.

So, Mike, just go ahead and push all the buttons you can find

Christian
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Re:Resurrection
« Reply #94 on: September 13, 2005, 01:21AM »
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Hi All

For what it is worth this is what Fabien Letouzey, the programmer of Fruit,
the program on which Toga is also based, has to say about the Engine Options :-

UCI options
-----------

You are advised to skip this section unless you are completely crazy
about computer chess.

Here I give you another chance to skip the section, as you should not
be reading this ...

Well you have downloaded Fruit in the first place so I suppose I can't
do anything for you anyway ...  I give up!

- "NullMove Pruning" (Always/Fail High/Never, default: Fail High)

"Always" actually means the usual conditions (not in check, etc ...).
"Fail High" adds the condition that the static evaluation fails high.
Never use "Never" (ever)!  OK you can use "Never" to test a Zugzwang
problem, but ask your Momma first!

I expect that this option has little effect (assuming the first two
choices only).  I only added it because most engines do not use the
fail-high condition.

- "NullMove Reduction" (1-3 plies, default: 3)

3 is rather aggressive, especially in the endgame.  It seems better
than always using 2 though.  I have not experimented with adaptive
solutions.

- "Verification Search" (Always/Endgame/Never, default: Endgame)

This tries to solve some Zugzwang-related problems.  I expect it to
hardly have any effect in games.  The default value should be
sufficient for most-common Zugzwang situations.

- "Verification Reduction" (1-6 plies, default: 5)

5 guarantees that the cost of verification search is negligible in
most cases.  Of course it means Zugzwang problems need a lot of depth
to get solved, if ever!  With such a reduction, verification search is
similar to Vincent Diepeveen's "double null move".

- "History Pruning" (true/false, default: true)

A bit dodgy, but fun to experiment with.  I added it in Fruit 2.0, and
I still haven't found the time to test it seriously ...  It should
help in blitz, but it's possible it actually hurts play in longer
games(!!!).  One day, I should check this.  One day ...

- "History Threshold" (percentage, default: 60%)

This is the thing, as it affects the search tree!  Lower values are
safer, and higher values more aggressive.  THIS VALUE HAS NOT BEEN
TUNED!  There is a good chance Fruit's strength can be improved by
changing this option.

- "Futility Pruning" (true/false, default: false)

Very common but controversial.  Makes the engine a tiny bit
better at tactics but slightly weaker positionally.  It might be
beneficial by a very small amount, but has not been tested in
conjunction with history pruning yet.

- "Futility Margin" (centipawns, default: 100)

This value is somewhat aggressive.  It could lead to problems in
the endgame.  Larger values prune less but will lead to fewer
positional errors.

- "Delta Pruning" (true/false, default: false)

Similar to futility pruning.  Probably safer because it is used
mainly during the middlegame.  Has not been tested with history
pruning either.

- "Delta Margin" (centipawns, default: 50)

Same behaviour as futility margin.  This one is probably safe.

- "Quiescence Check Plies" (0-2 plies, default: 1)

Fruit tries safe (SEE >= 0) checks at the first plies of the
quiescence search.  0 means no checks at all (as in most older
engines).  1 is the same as previous versions of Fruit.  2 is probably
not worth the extra cost.  It could be interesting when solving mate
problems though.

- evaluation options (percentage, default: 100%)

These options are evaluation-feature multipliers.  You can modify
Fruit's playing style to an extent or make Fruit weaker for instance
by setting "Material" to a low value.

"Material" is obvious.  It also includes the bishop-pair bonus.
"Piece Activity": piece placement and mobility.
"King Safety": mixed features related to the king during early phases
"Pawn Structure": all pawn-only features (not passed pawns).
"Passed Pawns": ... can you guess?

I think "Pawn Structure" is not an important parameter.
Who knows what you can obtain by playing with others?


Hmm this is going to be mainly trial and error, but at least I have the defaults.

Ruud, writing a full and comprehensive manual will be fun for you.

All the best
Mike
   
« Last Edit: September 27, 2005, 08:03AM by Mike Watters » Report to moderator Logged
Ruud Martin
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Re:Resurrection
« Reply #95 on: September 12, 2005, 01:24PM »
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Guys,

Interesting thought. Maybe i should program a version in which you can select two engine and play the game on the board.

Or i could program that the four engines are calculating at the same time, so you can see the differences.

So many ideas.. 

Ruud
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Ruud Martin

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Re:Resurrection
« Reply #96 on: September 12, 2005, 06:46AM »
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Hi,

of course it works fine with my RR too...now the real fun part begins

It is a shame that I didn't buy two of these machines at a time.

I wonder what would be the result of a duel between fruit and Ruffian?


Christian
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Re:Resurrection
« Reply #97 on: September 12, 2005, 05:19AM »
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Hi Mike,

Any chance we could see pictures of the display with those engines? Maybe the start up screen?

Ismenio
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Re:Resurrection
« Reply #98 on: September 12, 2005, 05:13AM »
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Hi All

I can report that Resurrection v2.04 is up and running here and working just fine.

I have allowed Fruit to beat me twice already.

The three new engines have masses of Engine Options.
For example on Fruit you can adjust :-
Ponder
Hint
Hash
NullMove Pruning
NullMove Reduction
Verification Search
Verification Reduction
History Pruning
History Threshold
Futility Pruning
Futility Margin
Delta Pruning
Delta Margin
Quinescence Check Plies
Material
Piece Activity
King Safety
Pawn structure
Passed Pawns

Toga seems to have even more options. Deep Sjeng has an Anti Human setting and personalities.

Frankly I haven't a clue what some of these options do.
But I shall be playing about with them. All I need is the default settings or I risk making this program
so weak that I can beat it. 

All the best
Mike

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Resurrection Update 2.04 (With four engines!)
« Reply #99 on: September 11, 2005, 03:08PM »
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Schachfreunde,

Die 2.04 ist versandet. Hoffe alles geht gut. Es ist die version mit 4 engines. Ruffian, Deep Sjeng, Fruit und Toga.

Chess Friends,

The 2.04 is underway. Hope all goes well. It is the version with 4 engines. Ruffian, Deep Sjeng, Fruit und Toga.

Greetings/Grusse,
Ruud Martin
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Ruud Martin

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