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  Quick update on my Novag Diamond
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   Author  Topic: Quick update on my Novag Diamond  (Read 881 times)
Endspielgott
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Re:Quick update on my Novag Diamond
« on: August 16, 2005, 07:24AM »
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Quote from: Robert Weck on August 16, 2005, 02:34AM   

Do you think, it is that much? I would estimate not more than 20 to 50 points...

Just there it made many mistakes. I would say, in the endgame it is much weaker than good Lang-Programs or Fidelity's...



Robert,

of course it is difficult to compare the endgame strength of the Star Diamond with the Lang Programs...but still...
it showed (as Hans already pointed out) astonishing results by winning rook endgames.
At least against me (and look at my nickname )

About the Elo difference between Star Diamond and Sapphire one can argue, thats true...the various BT Tests and so on give only a smaller gap between the two.

But in practical play I beat the Diamond even blindfoldet nearly at will, and at the opposite I am fighting hard to score against the Star...well everybody has to find out for himself.

Kittinger Regards!

Christian

P.S. You are right, there are sometimes blackouts in the endgame...but where are none?
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Sargon
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Re:Quick update on my Novag Diamond
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2005, 03:27AM »
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Hello Robert ,Christian,Ian,

I must agree with Robert with the elopoints 20-50 more then the Diamond.
But i have played sofar 6 games with mine Star Diamond level 40/120 and i would say, what i have seen . It plays very good chess and if u can defeat the Tournamentmachine Londen 2mb 36mhz in 2 rookendgames!! then i must say " it nows something about endgames" But i have only played 6 games with it so i can"t have/give a 100% answer right now.

Kind regards,

Hans
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Robert Weck
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Re:Quick update on my Novag Diamond
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2005, 02:34AM »
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Quote from: Endspielgott on August 14, 2005, 11:46AM   

the Level "average time" is an old Novag problem with the Diaamond as well as with the Sapphire (which are technically the same, only that the Sapphire is a handheld).

Even some weaker models like the Emerald Classic plus and the Turquoise have this problem!

Quote:

The Star Diamond is definetely stronger than the Diamond, 150-200 Elo at my point of view.

Do you think, it is that much? I would estimate not more than 20 to 50 points...

At least at the lower levels (30m/game) it sometimes makes mysterious blunders (maybe it has to do with the "Extensions" that were activated at this time)

The next games I will play with deactivated Extensions, maybe this will help...


Quote:

P.S. The Diamond is quite strong in the endgame,

Sorry, but I can't confirm that!
Just there it made many mistakes. I would say, in the endgame it is much weaker than good Lang-Programs or Fidelity's...


Robert
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drawmeister
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Re:Quick update on my Novag Diamond
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2005, 02:24AM »
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Quote from: Ismenio on August 15, 2005, 08:02AM   

Does anybody have a table of "personalities" for the chess computer programs?
For example, can we classify them like Christian's favorite: Kittinger = <characteristics>
etc
etc?

Ismenio


Yes that's a good idea i would be willing to contribute.

I am still having great fun playing the Diamond, the games you get remind me of 2 eager 'club' players castling either side and just going for each others throats..........mad !!


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Endspielgott
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Re:Quick update on my Novag Diamond
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2005, 11:10AM »
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Quote from: Ismenio on August 15, 2005, 08:02AM   

Does anybody have a table of "personalities" for the chess computer programs?
For example, can we classify them like Christian's favorite: Kittinger = <characteristics>
etc
etc?

Ismenio

Ismenio

we could establish a table like this, couldn´t we?

There are a lot of folks here who play against several  machines quite often...so why not try to characterize the playing style of the various programs?

Christian
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Ismenio
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Re:Quick update on my Novag Diamond
« Reply #5 on: August 15, 2005, 08:02AM »
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Does anybody have a table of "personalities" for the chess computer programs?
For example, can we classify them like Christian's favorite: Kittinger = <characteristics>
etc
etc?

Ismenio
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Map of chess computer friends: http://www.frappr.com/chesscomputers
Endspielgott
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Re:Quick update on my Novag Diamond
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2005, 11:48AM »
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Ian,

I forgot to tell you that the error with the average time level does not exist anymore in the program of the Star Diamond/Star Sapphire.

Christian
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Endspielgott
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Re:Quick update on my Novag Diamond
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2005, 11:46AM »
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Quote from: drawmeister on August 14, 2005, 09:57AM   

Been playing a few games with my new purchase Novag Diamond, here's my thoughts so far.

Nice quality feel to the board.

Confused by the level set up, infact the manual even says there is an error when setting an average time per move  ie press a square for av 10 secs per move but this will only work for a few moves !, after which in my case it is responding instantly.

Likes to castle queenside in many games.

Has on a couple of times sacrificed a piece for 2 pawns and a kingside attack but this has been unsound so far.

The endgame play seems very strong, i am impressed with this part of it's game so i try not to get there even with level material.
Hmm wonder what the 'Star' diamond is like ?.

Ian.


Ian,

the Level "average time" is an old Novag problem with the Diaamond as well as with the Sapphire (which are technically the same, only that the Sapphire is a handheld).

The Queenside castling and piece sacrifice for some pawns is typical style of Kittinger programs. This is why I am a Kittinger fan...but of course these sacrifices are not correct very often...but it provides fun, and this is what we are looking for, isn´t it?

The Star Diamond is definetely stronger than the Diamond, 150-200 Elo at my point of view. It lost a little bit of his agressive style due to more solid play. But still queenside castleing happens quite often: the battle begins

Kittinger regards,

Christian

P.S. The Diamond is quite strong in the endgame, I made some sad experiances myself
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drawmeister
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Quick update on my Novag Diamond
« Reply #8 on: August 14, 2005, 09:57AM »
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Been playing a few games with my new purchase Novag Diamond, here's my thoughts so far.

Nice quality feel to the board.

Confused by the level set up, infact the manual even says there is an error when setting an average time per move  ie press a square for av 10 secs per move but this will only work for a few moves !, after which in my case it is responding instantly.

Likes to castle queenside in many games.

Has on a couple of times sacrificed a piece for 2 pawns and a kingside attack but this has been unsound so far.

The endgame play seems very strong, i am impressed with this part of it's game so i try not to get there even with level material.

Overall i like it, nice to use apart from the level set glitch with quite aggresive play and a strong program in particular the endgame is awesome.

Might play it against the Mephisto Master and see what happens. Hmm wonder what the 'Star' diamond is like ?.

Ian.
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