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  TIMELINE
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   Author  Topic: TIMELINE  (Read 1653 times)
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Re:TIMELINE
« on: November 19, 2005, 09:10AM »
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Hi Ismenio,

Quote from: Ismenio on November 18, 2005, 07:12PM   






very funny...

Enthused greetings,
Micha
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Re:TIMELINE
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2005, 07:12PM »
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Robert, that was part of what I wanted to do. I'm still thinking about how to do it. Maybe have more than one version, Mike's plain text and another one with links maybe?

I like Mike's color coded doc but if we put links there it may mess things up once you click on them.

We'll see.

Ismenio

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Robert Weck
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Re:TIMELINE
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2005, 11:33PM »
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Hi Mike,

Quote from: Mike Watters on November 17, 2005, 08:31AM   

Most people most of the time want to know about a specific chess computer. A picture, its strength, its features etc. One of the things they may want to know is its date. They will not want to hunt through many years, where the manufacturers are all together, looking for the particular machine they are interested in.

How about connecting your Timeline with our chess computer wikipedia? (http://www.schach-computer.info/wiki/index.php/Hauptseite)

there we already have a kind of Timeline ("Jahresübersicht"), but at the moment it contains only computers, which have articles in the wiki...


Robert
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Re:TIMELINE
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2005, 03:34PM »
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Mike, those are all good points! I was looking at the page again and I actually think you're being diplomatic in your comments: it is plain ugly 

I don't think it is practical the way I did at all! I wanted to put too much information in a format that simply won't work.

I'll play with it again and post another version soon 

Regards,

Ismenio
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Mike Watters
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Re:TIMELINE
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2005, 08:31AM »
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Ismenio

I have a few points.

1. Firstly is it possible to display the Timeline on a webpage, as per the word processor document, with everything complete and aligned? In that form it is a picture of the historical progress of chess computers, including the competition between rival manufacturers. This has some value, and possibly could stand, for now, on its own.

2. Our idea that the Timeline could be the basis for links to photographs and information may not be as good as it seemed. Taking the manufacturers columns out brought this home to me.

Most people most of the time want to know about a specific chess computer. A picture, its strength, its features etc. One of the things they may want to know is its date. They will not want to hunt through many years, where the manufacturers are all together, looking for the particular machine they are interested in.

So this main purpose of links to pictures and information could be best served by lists of machines by manufacturers name, rather than the Timeline. A bit like Karstens list, by manufacturer and model, in alphabetical (or rough date) order. I would be happy to do those lists and could include many, perhaps hundreds, more chess computers not included on the Timeline for want of a date. For the moment you could use the Timeline manufacturers lists in date order as the basis for links to your collection. We can simply add any machines not on the list for which links are available. That would not be possible with the Timeline without a year to allocate the machine to.

If possible the Timeline could be linked to the lists, rather than the other way around?

3. The method of presentation places more emphasis on the month released. This is the least available and least reliable information. Chess computers were often released at different times in different parts of the world. Many were announced long before they were actually available. So any information on months has to come with this caveat.

As you have found there are many machines for which the month of release is not on the Timeline. Until Hein Veldhuis completes his mammoth task that may well remain the case. Anyway the month of release is mainly of interest in the first ten years, when the major manufacturers were in a "race" against each other.

So the unavailability and unreliabilty of month information is another reason to consider the list idea rather than the Timeline.

4. If you wanted to stay with the method of presentation on the draft webpage then I think it would be best to find another way of dealing with the month unknowns. Perhaps in a box spread across the page underneath? Mention of the Other (oth) category can be discarded.

Sorry I could not have thought of these things before you started work on it.    What do you think?

All the best
Mike



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Re:TIMELINE
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2005, 07:42AM »
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Quote from: Robert Weck on November 17, 2005, 01:55AM   


Quote from: Endspielgott on October 25, 2005, 05:38AM   

this is true...but still. The Turniermaschine is quite an impressive device. They do not make them anymore like this

if only the fans were a little more silent! In Kaufbeuren, Saturday evening, we suddenly noticed, that it was remarkably quiet in the tournament room. We asked ourself, what the reason was, until we found out, that Hans has switched off his T.M. !! 


Robert


Robert,

this noise was in fact the reason I wanted to get rid of this machine...it was my first dedicated chesscomputer, and the fans were really annoying. I also feared that they would eventually break...they already started to make some weird sounds. So... I bought a Risc which was strong AND silent. And less expensive.
Well from todays point of view it was a mistake to sell the TM. But at least I owned one once

Christian
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Re:TIMELINE
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2005, 01:55AM »
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Quote from: Endspielgott on October 25, 2005, 05:38AM   

this is true...but still. The Turniermaschine is quite an impressive device. They do not make them anymore like this

if only the fans were a little more silent! In Kaufbeuren, Saturday evening, we suddenly noticed, that it was remarkably quiet in the tournament room. We asked ourself, what the reason was, until we found out, that Hans has switched off his T.M. !! 


Robert
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Ismenio
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Re:TIMELINE
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2005, 03:26PM »
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Folks,

This a rough draft of my attempt to convert Mike's great timeline into HTML. My idea is to have a reference page, with links to as many computers as possible and have a format that will be "user friendly" and viewable in any web browser, operating system and handheld devices.

I played with colors to identify the companies like Mike did but it wasn't practical, especially when you clicked on the links. So I came up with a 3 letter identifier for each company, kind of like the system they use in the stock exchange. Let me know if that makes sense or if you have other ideas. For the computers I don't have I would like to link to those who have them like Alain and Tom, the Schachcomputer encyclopedia and Kurt's site, etc. If you have one of the computers you can also upload a picture to our Frappr community (www.frappr.com/chesscomputers) and you can add your comments to them, with description, ELO rating, etc. Then I can link to them.

Also, any ideas of how we can the the month the computers were released? You will see how it would really look nicer if we had them in the columns for the months. It would also help us have a good picture of the distribution.

Please let me know what you think and remember this is a work in progress!

We can have the names of all those who contribute listed on the page!

http://www.ismenio.com/timeline.html

Thanks,

Ismenio
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Endspielgott
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Re:TIMELINE
« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2005, 05:38AM »
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Quote from: Mike Watters on October 24, 2005, 03:47PM   

Yes Christian I am sorry for reminding you.

The Turniermaschine is a chess computer I will probably not get to see, let alone own. But there is always that fine tournament machine we do have. The Resurrection.

Mike




Mike,

this is true...but still. The Turniermaschine is quite an impressive device. They do not make them anymore like this

Christian
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Re:TIMELINE
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2005, 03:47PM »
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Yes Christian I am sorry for reminding you.

The Turniermaschine is a chess computer I will probably not get to see, let alone own. But there is always that fine tournament machine we do have. The Resurrection.

Mike

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Re:TIMELINE
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2005, 10:22AM »
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Quote from: Mike Watters on October 24, 2005, 05:58AM   


Quote from: Endspielgott on October 24, 2005, 04:51AM   


Quote from: Mike Watters on October 24, 2005, 01:19AM   


The Gambit does not look so old so 1, 1970, 1985, 1
What do you get? 

Mike


2017
Christian

Maybe you have sold too many things on Ebay. 

Mike


Yes, Mike,

this must be it...sold too many things. Well, the only thing I regret now is the loss of my tournament machine
I really shouldn't have sold this one...but a small apartment, empty bank account and a new family member sometimes force you to do strange things...

Christian
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Re:TIMELINE
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2005, 05:58AM »
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Quote from: Endspielgott on October 24, 2005, 04:51AM   


Quote from: Mike Watters on October 24, 2005, 01:19AM   


The Gambit does not look so old so 1, 1970, 1985, 1
What do you get? 

Mike


2017
Christian

Maybe you have sold too many things on Ebay. 

Mike
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Re:TIMELINE
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2005, 04:51AM »
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Quote from: Mike Watters on October 24, 2005, 01:19AM   


The Gambit does not look so old so 1, 1970, 1985, 1
What do you get? 

Mike


2017
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Re:TIMELINE
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2005, 01:19AM »
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Quote from: Ismenio on October 23, 2005, 01:15PM   

Wow! I totally missed that one   
Now, any idea where he got that 1975 date from?


Ismenio


Ismenio

Sadly Ebay sellers tend not to use the Timeline or other sources you and I might use to verify the date of their chess computer. This is what they use :-

http://www.random.org/nform.html

Now say we are deciding the year of your Compuchess - input 1, 1965, 1977,1 - and get the date.

1971 right? 

The Gambit does not look so old so 1, 1970, 1985, 1
What do you get? 

Mike
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Re:TIMELINE
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2005, 01:15PM »
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Wow! I totally missed that one   
Now, any idea where he got that 1975 date from?


Ismenio
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Mike Watters
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Re:TIMELINE
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2005, 09:37AM »
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Quote from: Endspielgott on October 21, 2005, 07:58AM   

Mike,

I think you have to review your research a little bit...

http://cgi.ebay.com/1975-Electronic-Chess-Game-LIKE-NEW_W0QQitemZ8711545765QQcategoryZ1182QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Christian

Christian

You are right. This is obviously a 1975 machine as it is so valuable.

I had been looking for a reliable date for the Classic. There is some confusion because of the similarity with its forerunner the Sensory 8. The Sensory 8 has an LED on each square. It can be reliably dated as 1980 (Karsten B, Tim Harding etc).

The Classic is a later, bottom of the range, model with 16 edge LEDs. I can find no mention of it before 1985, but to look at it you think it must be earlier? The Classic model number 6079 would suggest 1985, as that was the year that the 6000 model numbers started. I have two Classics and they both have the 6079 number on the machine, manual and boxes. The Classic was just one of those machines largely ignored by the press, with one exception CSS 6/85 Page 33 where Sid Samole mentions it along with the Excellence and Avant Garde.

It stays at 1985, with a ? ,until some clued up person proves otherwise.

Mike
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Re:TIMELINE
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2005, 07:58AM »
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Mike,

I think you have to review your research a little bit...

http://cgi.ebay.com/1975-Electronic-Chess-Game-LIKE-NEW_W0QQitemZ8711545765QQcategoryZ1182QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Christian
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Re:TIMELINE
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2005, 08:03AM »
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All,

I'm "starting" to get back to normal this week so I should go back to a much needed update on the site, including Mike's great timeline. I'll have to change the format to make it browser-friendly and I want to add links to it as well.

Best!

Ismenio
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Re:TIMELINE
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2005, 06:07AM »
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Hi Tom,


Quote from: Overtom on October 14, 2005, 11:39AM   

The Dutch seem to "enjoy" the dubious reputation that they want anything they can get for free. After all, don't they say "the trouble with the Dutch is that they give too little and always ask too much"?

The only reputation, that Dutch have here in Germany, is, that they are always on the road! At least 90% of all cars with trailers on our highways are dutch! 

And the rest of the cars are Dutch, that couldn't afford a trailer! 


just joking regards ,
Robert (just to make this clear: all Dutch people, that i know, are very nice guys)

P.S.: Mike, i also would love to have your timeline! Thank you in advance!
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Re:TIMELINE
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2005, 05:08AM »
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Hi Mike, 

Thanks, I have sent you a message!

Best wishes

Chris
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