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  The company Hegener&Glaser (Mephisto)
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Mike Watters
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Re:The company Hegener&Glaser (Mephisto)
« Reply #20 on: May 7, 2005, 01:15PM »
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Christian

It is good to see your Tasc picture back again. 

Is it next weekend that Ruud arrives with the goodies, or the weekend after? I do not expect to see my Resurrection for a good while yet. As far as I know I am the only one in the UK. I shall get very agitated when you are all showing off with them and I am still on the long wait.

Some of the MM IIs had the name of the module written at the top - "Modul MM II". I do not know if they all did.

All the best
Mike

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Re:The company Hegener&Glaser (Mephisto)
« Reply #21 on: May 7, 2005, 06:57AM »
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Quote from: Mike Watters on May  6, 2005, 03:44PM   


Quote:
The second was made by Hegener & Glaser and is probably one of the MM series. But that's about all I know. I made a picture of the keyboard part. I wonder if anybody recognizes the type and could tell me what it's called.



The board itself just says "Modular". but I suppose this only appplies to the board and not to the computer itself.

I have tried to pull the modules out, but so far, they didn't come loose. Would it be wise just to go on pulling, or is there some kind of latch that has to be released before you can loosen the modules?

Hi Tom

I do not have this particular module but I think it is the Blitz and Problem module.

There is no latch on the Modular boards. The modules just pull out. If you give it a sharp tug it should come out Ok.

All the best
Mike


Hi Tom/Mike,

it could be also the MMII. They are close (technical and optical - MMII and B&P), programmed by Rathsmann...
In fact a collegue of mine owns them both...I will ask him next week and then we´ll definitedly know.

Christian
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Mike Watters
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Re:The company Hegener&Glaser (Mephisto)
« Reply #22 on: May 6, 2005, 03:44PM »
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Quote:
The second was made by Hegener & Glaser and is probably one of the MM series. But that's about all I know. I made a picture of the keyboard part. I wonder if anybody recognizes the type and could tell me what it's called.



The board itself just says "Modular". but I suppose this only appplies to the board and not to the computer itself.

I have tried to pull the modules out, but so far, they didn't come loose. Would it be wise just to go on pulling, or is there some kind of latch that has to be released before you can loosen the modules?

Hi Tom

I do not have this particular module but I think it is the Blitz and Problem module.

There is no latch on the Modular boards. The modules just pull out. If you give it a sharp tug it should come out Ok.

All the best
Mike
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Re:The company Hegener&Glaser (Mephisto)
« Reply #23 on: May 6, 2005, 03:01PM »
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Collectors never seem to be satisfied with what they have. I'm no exception, so in the course of the last week, I acquired two machines, one being the Novag Star Ruby, which I already put on my site:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~tluif/chescom/EngNovStRub.html

The second was made by Hegener & Glaser and is probably one of the MM series. But that's about all I know. I made a picture of the keyboard part. I wonder if anybody recognizes the type and could tell me what it's called.



The board itself just says "Modular". but I suppose this only appplies to the board and not to the computer itself.

I have tried to pull the modules out, but so far, they didn't come loose. Would it be wise just to go on pulling, or is there some kind of latch that has to be released before you can loosen the modules?

Another thing is that I'd like to test it in a match against the Star Ruby mentioned above and as third contestant I'm thinking of Mephisto Advanced Travel Chess (which in my view has the best price-quality ratio of all computers on the market).

But to be able to allot them equal thinking time, I would need the manual for the Mephisto computer depicted. Would anybody have such a manual?
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Ismenio
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Re:The company Hegener&Glaser (Mephisto)
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2005, 06:00PM »
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Quote from: Dick Schneiders on March 14, 2005, 05:49PM   

...
Hey to next week, right, Ismenio?

Dick Schneiders



LOL! 
I'm sure I'll be a lousy adversary Dick, so you don't need to worry about me! In fact, you may not see me out there at all I'm almost convinced the Eyball will remain a distant dream for me!

Ismenio
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Dick Schneiders
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Re:The company Hegener&Glaser (Mephisto)
« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2005, 05:49PM »
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Quote from: Mike Watters on March 14, 2005, 04:16PM   

.

Sometimes there was little or no improvement in strength but a gullible public were fed ever inflated Elo figures. When I look back at the advertising brochures of those days the claims are a joke.


All the best
Mike


Mike,

Thanks for the detailed answer.  You said what I had hoped would be your conclusion.  Certainly I will never *need* a stronger playing module than the Polgar, and already I like all the features.  I often can be as "gullible" as the next fool, and so I needed to hear some truth on this matter.

Staying away from buying all of the various modules will save me enough money that I should be able to buy up every Phantom 6126 that shows up on eBay.    At least those would be a good investment. 

Hey to next week, right, Ismenio?

Dick Schneiders

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Mike Watters
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Re:The company Hegener&Glaser (Mephisto)
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2005, 04:16PM »
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Dick good question. As you realise I am no Mephisto expert. I studiously ignored them right through from 1985 to 2003, because of my unfortunate experience with the ESB.

You need to see all the modules in the context of the developing strength and features of chess computers. In particular the quest for greater strength of play led to fierce competition between a few firms who sought out the best programmers. The programmers competed at World Championships often on state of the art hardware. So it was a constant race for supremacy.

Buying the latest Mephisto module must have been like buying the latest automobile or hi-fi for some people. Many had to have the strongest. That was quite important in the early to mid 1980s when you had to wait for a strong move from a chess computer. Richard Langs Mephisto programs won the World Championship year after year from 1985. The Polgar is a later Ed Schroder program aimed more at features than strength. I think that it follows the principals of the Mephisto Academy which is a sweet machine that I have.

Sometimes there was little or no improvement in strength but a gullible public were fed ever inflated Elo figures. When I look back at the advertising brochures of those days the claims are a joke.

So if they started again they surely would have just a small proportion of the modules. As it is you have masses of choice.

On the question of features I'll pass. I only really know about the ones I have.

All the best
Mike
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Re:The company Hegener&Glaser (Mephisto)
« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2005, 04:04PM »
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I think it would be helpful to have the information in the form of a spread sheet with lines and columns telling different information. We could have the list of modules in the lines and a list of compatible boards in the columns. I think it would be easier to visualize them that way.

Any volunteers to work on Bernhard's list? I can transfer the final list to an HTML page and put it on the site.

Ismenio
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Dick Schneiders
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Re:The company Hegener&Glaser (Mephisto)
« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2005, 03:39PM »
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Quote from: Mike Watters on March 14, 2005, 03:03PM   

Daniel

Thanks to Bernhard this thread will help you with what Mephisto modules there are.

Mike




Mike,

I spent some time today reading my Polgar manual for the first time.  I am amazed at all the features included in this set of modules. 

I have what is probably a dumb question, but after reading the manual and seeing the list of modules made for these boards, I have to ask why?

Why are there so many different module choices?  Certainly, I realize that they have different playing strengths, but there are far too many different modules for that to be the only reason.  In other words, why would anybody that has, say the Polgar 10MHz (somebody I know), rated at 2042 ELO, want or need to have another module rated close to that, say the Roma 14MHz rated at 2030, or the Portorose 12MHz rated at 2044?  Do the modules also have greatly different options and functions?  I have read some of the short descriptions of various modules and do see that there are also different levels of opening books in the modules, but again, many of them are very much the same.

I remember your telling me, awhile back, that the current Senator module is a bit stronger than the Polgar, but that you like the features of the Polgar better.

Is there any place or way for me to learn about the differences in the features of the various modules?  I *hope* I don't get the desire to own a lot of modules, but I do see them pop up on eBay and elsewhere from time to time and don't have any idea how to determine what they might do differently, or the relative worth of them.

For a single dumb question, I certainly managed to type a lot of words! 

Thanks,

Dick Schneiders
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Mike Watters
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Re:The company Hegener&Glaser (Mephisto)
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2005, 03:03PM »
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Daniel

Thanks to Bernhard this thread will help you with what Mephisto modules there are.

Mike

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Re:The company Hegener&Glaser (Mephisto)
« Reply #30 on: March 8, 2005, 11:41PM »
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Hi Bernhard,


Quote from: _hard on March  8, 2005, 10:53PM   

Hi Alain,
Quote from: alainza on March  8, 2005, 10:43AM   
could you give us additional information about "standalone" models : Modena, Milano & Pro, Berlin & Pro, Atlanta (I believe it's the Magellan program) ?
let me first thank you for your wonderfull website and sharing all the manuals with us!!

Thanks... and all that information you gave us in this thread will be precious to update this site.


Quote:

Here some older standalone chess computers from Mephisto in a short technical summary:

- Mondial = Frans Morsch, cpu 6502, 2 mhz, 16k, no display (the first "little Fritz" )
- Mondial II = Frans Morsch, cpu 6502, 2 mhz, 32k, no display
- Super Mondial = Frans Morsch, cpu 6502, 4 mhz, 32k, two displays
- Super Mondial II = Ed Schroeder, cpu 6502, 4 mhz, 32k, two displays (~Mephisto MM IV)
- Mondial XL = Richard Lang, cpu 68000, 12 mhz, 64k, one displays (~Mephisto Dallas)
- Mega IV = Ed Schroeder, cpu 6502, 4.9 mhz, 32k, two displays
- Monte Carlo (wood) = Frans Morsch, cpu 6502, 4 mhz, 32k, two displays (~Super Mondial)
- Monte Carlo IV (wood) = Ed Schroeder, cpu 6502, 4 mhz, 32k, two displays (~Super Mondial II)
- Monte Carlo IV LE (wood) = Ed Schroeder, cpu 6502, 8 mhz, 32k, two displays
- Montreal (wood) =  Richard Lang, cpu 68000, 12 mhz, 64k, one displays (~Mephisto Roma)
- Academy (wood) = Ed Schroeder, cpu 6502, 5 mhz, 32k, alphanumeric display (~Mephisto Polgar)
- Milano = Ed Schroeder, cpu 6502, 5 mhz, 32k, alphanumeric display (~Mephisto Polgar)
- Modena = Frans Morsch, cpu 6502, 4 mhz, 32k, one displays (~CXG Sphinx Dominator)
- Milano pro = Frans Morsch, cpu SH7000, 16 mhz, 64k, one display (~Mephisto Senator)
- Atlanta = Frans Morsch, cpu SH7000, 20 mhz, 64k, hashtables, one display (~Mephisto Magellan)
- Berlin = Richard Lang, cpu 68000, 12 mhz, 128k, hashtables, alphanumeric display (~Mephisto Vancouver)
- Berlin pro = Richard Lang, cpu 68020, 24 mhz, 256k, hashtables, alphanumeric display (~Mephisto Genius or London)

Viele Grüße,
Bernhard

Wunderbar !
Danke schön und freundlische Grüße
Alain
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Re:The company Hegener&Glaser (Mephisto)
« Reply #31 on: March 8, 2005, 11:17PM »
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Mike,
Quote from: Mike Watters on March  8, 2005, 11:49AM   

As an example I was amazed that the Novag Constellation has no printer port and therefore cannot be used with the printer, whereas the machines which proceeded it and followed it can.

Do you know why Mephisto never provided a printer and other accessories (clock, PC link etc) for the range?

only the Novag "Super"-series (like Super Sensor IV from 1981, or Super VIP or Super Connstellation and so on) was prepared for additional devices.

Mephisto produced AFAIK only a pc-adaptor module for connecting the board to an IBM compatible pc. A couple of pc chess programs had support for this. You can find it sometimes on eBay.

Viele Grüße,
Bernhard 
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Re:The company Hegener&Glaser (Mephisto)
« Reply #32 on: March 8, 2005, 10:53PM »
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Hi Alain,
Quote from: alainza on March  8, 2005, 10:43AM   
could you give us additional information about "standalone" models : Modena, Milano & Pro, Berlin & Pro, Atlanta (I believe it's the Magellan program) ?
let me first thank you for your wonderfull website and sharing all the manuals with us!!

Here some older standalone chess computers from Mephisto in a short technical summary:

- Mondial = Frans Morsch, cpu 6502, 2 mhz, 16k, no display (the first "little Fritz" )
- Mondial II = Frans Morsch, cpu 6502, 2 mhz, 32k, no display
- Super Mondial = Frans Morsch, cpu 6502, 4 mhz, 32k, two displays
- Super Mondial II = Ed Schroeder, cpu 6502, 4 mhz, 32k, two displays (~Mephisto MM IV)
- Mondial XL = Richard Lang, cpu 68000, 12 mhz, 64k, one displays (~Mephisto Dallas)
- Mega IV = Ed Schroeder, cpu 6502, 4.9 mhz, 32k, two displays
- Monte Carlo (wood) = Frans Morsch, cpu 6502, 4 mhz, 32k, two displays (~Super Mondial)
- Monte Carlo IV (wood) = Ed Schroeder, cpu 6502, 4 mhz, 32k, two displays (~Super Mondial II)
- Monte Carlo IV LE (wood) = Ed Schroeder, cpu 6502, 8 mhz, 32k, two displays
- Montreal (wood) =  Richard Lang, cpu 68000, 12 mhz, 64k, one displays (~Mephisto Roma)
- Academy (wood) = Ed Schroeder, cpu 6502, 5 mhz, 32k, alphanumeric display (~Mephisto Polgar)
- Milano = Ed Schroeder, cpu 6502, 5 mhz, 32k, alphanumeric display (~Mephisto Polgar)
- Modena = Frans Morsch, cpu 6502, 4 mhz, 32k, one displays (~CXG Sphinx Dominator)
- Milano pro = Frans Morsch, cpu SH7000, 16 mhz, 64k, one display (~Mephisto Senator)
- Atlanta = Frans Morsch, cpu SH7000, 20 mhz, 64k, hashtables, one display (~Mephisto Magellan)
- Berlin = Richard Lang, cpu 68000, 12 mhz, 128k, hashtables, alphanumeric display (~Mephisto Vancouver)
- Berlin pro = Richard Lang, cpu 68020, 24 mhz, 256k, hashtables, alphanumeric display (~Mephisto Genius or London)
- Montreux = Johann de Koning, cpu ARM2, 14 mhz, 256k, hashtables, alphanumeric display (~Saitek RISC 2500)


Viele Grüße,
Bernhard
« Last Edit: March 9, 2005, 12:27AM by _hard » Report to moderator Logged
Mike Watters
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Re:The company Hegener&Glaser (Mephisto)
« Reply #33 on: March 8, 2005, 11:49AM »
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Quote:

Quote:

indeed the two display modules are strange.

I tested the Roma II module in the Mirage board. It works, but the sensory board is useless! You have to type in the moves via the keyboard.

There is a speed & program difference between the devices with a Mephisto II program inside.

1. Mephisto II, cpu=1802, 3.5 mhz
2. Mephisto II, cpu=1802, 6.1 mhz
3. Mephisto II with ESB support, cpu=1802, 6.1 mhz
4. Mephisto Mirage, cpu=1806, 8 mhz

Best regards,
Bernhard

Hi Bernhard

Many thanks for the information. I am not sure which version of the Mephisto II I have but I can try the module with and without the ESB and compare it with the Mirage.

I am surprised your Roma II works with the Mirage, even just keying in the moves. Mephisto really seem to have made an effort to ensure a good degree of compatibility. Across the range - boards, modules, koffers -  there is a rationality which one does not see with Saitek and Novag for instance. As an example I was amazed that the Novag Constellation has no printer port and therefore cannot be used with the printer, whereas the machines which proceeded it and followed it can.

Do you know why Mephisto never provided a printer and other accessories (clock, PC link etc) for the range?

viele Grüsse
Mike
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Re:The company Hegener&Glaser (Mephisto)
« Reply #34 on: March 8, 2005, 10:43AM »
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Wonderful article Bernhard !
...
could you give us additional information about "standalone" models : Modena, Milano & Pro, Berlin & Pro, Atlanta (I believe it's the Magellan program) ?

thanks a lot
best,

Alain
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Re:The company Hegener&Glaser (Mephisto)
« Reply #35 on: March 8, 2005, 08:33AM »
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Hi Mike,
Quote from: Mike Watters on March  5, 2005, 01:39PM   

In the Modular board just the program module works, but in the Exclusive board you need both the program and another display module. Which is strange because then you watch two perfectly synchronised displays.

I have to say I am surprised it works with one board being press sensory and the other boards auto sensory.

Sometime I will see whether there is any difference between the Mirage version of the Mephisto II and a normal Mephisto II module.

indeed the two display modules are strange.

I tested the Roma II module in the Mirage board. It works, but the sensory board is useless! You have to type in the moves via the keyboard.

There is a speed & program difference between the devices with a Mephisto II program inside.

1. Mephisto II, cpu=1802, 3.5 mhz
2. Mephisto II, cpu=1802, 6.1 mhz
3. Mephisto II with ESB support, cpu=1802, 6.1 mhz
4. Mephisto Mirage, cpu=1806, 8 mhz

Best regards,
Bernhard
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Mike Watters
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Re:The company Hegener&Glaser (Mephisto)
« Reply #36 on: March 5, 2005, 01:39PM »
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Quote:
@Mike: the Mirage board can only host the Mirage and the MM I (+ display) module. Sorry but I never tried to put the Mirage in an Exclusive board, so I can't tell.

You know, that the Mirage, MM I, Rebel, MM IV, MM V and Roma II fits in the mobile LCD adapter?! There are two different. One with, the ohter without display. The last is for the Mirage module only (because it has a display built in). 

Bernhard


Bernard

I have found that the Mirage module does work OK in the Modular and Exclusive boards as well. In the Modular board just the program module works, but in the Exclusive board you need both the program and another display module. Which is strange because then you watch two perfectly synchronised displays.

I have to say I am surprised it works with one board being press sensory and the other boards auto sensory.

Sometime I will see whether there is any difference between the Mirage version of the Mephisto II and a normal Mephisto II module.

All the best
Mike
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Re:The company Hegener&Glaser (Mephisto)
« Reply #37 on: March 2, 2005, 07:11AM »
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Hi,

thanks a lot for your very nice comments.

Please notice, that there was a little copy&paste mistake with some 68020 modules. The two old (Dallas + Roma) ran with 14 MHz. But the newer have only 12 MHz. It is corrected.

@Ismenio: sure, you can use it for your site. Of course it _is_ there. But please correct my missspellings.

@Mike: the Mirage board can only host the Mirage and the MM I (+ display) module. Sorry but I never tried to put the Mirage in an Exclusive board, so I can't tell.

You know, that the Mirage, MM I, Rebel, MM IV, MM V and Roma II fits in the mobile LCD adapter?! There are two different. One with, the ohter without display. The last is for the Mirage module only (because it has a display built in). 

Bernhard
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Re:The company Hegener&Glaser (Mephisto)
« Reply #38 on: March 2, 2005, 04:16AM »
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Quote from: _hard on March  1, 2005, 11:52PM   

Hi folks,

especially for pleasing our wizzard Ismenio , here is a short history about Mephisto.

The company Hegener&Glaser (Mephisto)

- 1969 founded in Munich by Manfred Hegener and Florian Glaser for production of semiconductors and displays
- 1978 programmer Thomas Nitsche and Elmar Henne gets in contact with H+G
- 1980 "Mephisto" trademark was created. First german chess computer by Thomas Nitsche and Elmar Henne
(...)

Best regards,
Bernhard


GM Bernhard,

That was way more than what I expected! BRAVO!!!
Thank you so much for sharing that with us!
Would you give me permission to post that on the site later on? It would be my pleasure to give you the credit

Dank und bester Respekt!

Ismenio
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Dick Schneiders
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Re:The company Hegener&Glaser (Mephisto)
« Reply #39 on: March 2, 2005, 03:33AM »
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Wow!!  What great information. 

I just purchased a few days ago on eBay a H&G Exclusive board with Polgar modules, so this is very interesting to me.  I am shocked to see how many different modules there are for these boards. 

I certainly hope I don't get the desire to possess every possible one of them. 

Thanks for posting this.

Dick Schneiders
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