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  Saitek or Novag ???
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   Author  Topic: Saitek or Novag ???  (Read 1773 times)
bobosse
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Re:Saitek or Novag ???
« on: June 4, 2006, 11:49AM »
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The Novag Sapphire II is clearly a very strong programm.
But it's impossible now to buy it with an Auto-response board.
And a Mephisto Exlusive Senator is really nice to use. So a nice wooden chessboard against a programm a bit stronger, what do you prefer ?
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sderyke2002
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Re:Saitek or Novag ???
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2006, 04:52PM »
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I remember a tournament I coordinated back in the 1980's between myself and two other humans along with the Turbostar 432, SuperConnie and the Mephisto Blitz.  All three humans were rated comparably to the three machines (all 6 participants within 100 points of each other).

The Mephisto Blitz was most machine like in my opinion and the Turbostar the most human like (it also won the tourney).  But of course these are old machines from long ago.
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Wesley
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Re:Saitek or Novag ???
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2006, 03:24AM »
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Tournament (1 hour per game)


1 Saitek Risc &;                    12.5 / 14
2 Novag Sapphire II                9.5 / 14
3 Mephisto Milano Pro            9.0 / 14
4 Mephisto Montreal              7.5 / 14       
5 PalmChess 2                        6.0 / 14
6 Novag Amber                      4.5 / 14
7 Chess Genius Palm              4.0 / 14
8 Saitek Cosmos                    3.0 / 14

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/lefouduroi/microfin.htm


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Robert Weck
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Re:Saitek or Novag ???
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2006, 01:31AM »
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Quote from: Wesley on May 19, 2006, 02:16PM   

What yours oppinion about "Novag series" play style  and  "Saitek series" against humans?

The novag diamond/sapphire series is "very" more stronger than (gk2100/president/expert) séries?
... agains humans ?

The Diamond/Sapphire is rated at about 2090 ELO while GK2100 should have about 100 points less.

So it should be better to compare the Senator/Milano pro/Expert with it. I have played 8 games Milano pro - Diamond (60min/game); the Diamond is leading with 5,5:2,5!

As ergundel said, Novag's have a more human-like style, they play very active and sometimes they sacrifice pieces for positional or tactical advantages! This doesn't always work, but it makes the games very interesting!

And i can also confirm, that the big weakness of the Saitek's is the endgame.


best regards,
Robert
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ergundel
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Re:Saitek or Novag ???
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2006, 08:55PM »
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I haven't had the opportunity to play the Diamond, but I have a Novag Obsidian and a Mephisto Senator (mostly the same program as the Master). IMO, the Senator is definitely harder to beat.

OTOH, I think I prefer the playing style of the Obsidian, which seems more human-like. I'm not sure which is more positional. I would say that both machines play a positional game when on defense, but the Novag gets more positional when attacking, and the Senator favors sharper tactics - and is very good at them, even for a machine.

Both machines seem decent at endgames, but I'd give the edge to the novag, there, simply because the Senator is much more likely to allow a draw in a game it should win.

I'm sure endgames and openings are probably the biggest improvement of the diamond over the obsidian, simply because the diamond has a much larger program, and that's where most of that memory would best be used.

If you look at older machines, it's even harder to compare novag to mephisto. Mephisto had a number of programmers with various styles. Lang's programs play very solid, humanlike games. Schroder's programs were positional and less interesting on the attack, but were more fun in a way (meaning, I felt I had a chance when playing them).  Morsch is just brutal tactically.

Novag has only one programmer. Kittinger's programs have always been human-like (except the Expert-C, which strangely reminding me of the Senator's playing style) and aggressive.  I alway's founds his programs to be the most fun to play against, but also the most beatable. If the Diamond came in the body of an Expert (a nice wooden board, similar to the Mephisto Exclusive), I probably would have opted for that instead of the Senator.
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Wesley
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Saitek or Novag ???
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2006, 02:16PM »
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Hi  all!

I have a question about Novag & Saitek stronger chess "against humans"

What yours oppinion about "Novag series" play style  and  "Saitek series" against humans?

The novag diamond/sapphire series is "very" more stronger than (gk2100/president/expert) séries?
... agains humans ?

The Saitek series is more positional in my oppinion, but the novag (diamond/sapphire) is more good in andgames and openings, but i dont know...

Please, post yours oppinions! :-)
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