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  1972 Nordic running rough
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   Author  Topic: 1972 Nordic running rough  (Read 303 times)
GaWajn
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1972 Nordic running rough
« on: January 17, 2013, 11:57:13 AM »
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I have been having problems with my 1972 Nordic ever since I got it this spring. It was hard starting and idled rough. High speed ran better than at idle speed.

Thanks to the suggestions from you guys on the board here ... I got some oil seals, condensors and plugs from Dave, and had a look today.



Looks wet on ther recoil and behind the stator plate ... not good ...



Someone had suggested replacing them without splitting the case. I thought I might give it a try ...



I had to drill a small pilot hole first ... then put the screw in ... not too deep (don't want to damage the bearing) ... then pulled it out with pliers ...



Drove the new one home with a block of wood and light tapping to get the seal seated correctly. I applied some grease to the inner part of the seal (that contacts the shaft), so that it won't be dry on startup. I applied some sealer to the outside of the seal, to lubricate it some and to help in sealing. I don't think it was needed .. but it was suggested by someone, and I thought it could not hurt.

Started the engine and it ran smooth at idle and strong through the RPM range. I had already cleaned and put a kit in  the tilly, so I just adjusted the idle speed and was all set.

The second problem that I have with this machine is that at idle, it wants to creep forward. I looked into moving the driven pulley towards the PTO, but was unable to do so. There seems to be no play for me to adjust this.

The second thing I tried was to stiffen the Drive clutch pulley spring. I did this by inserting a 3/8ths spacer between the bearing and the spring retainer close to the inner half of the clutch. This had the effect of compressing the spring so that it needed more centrifugal force to move the outer half the the pulley towards the inner half. This did the trick! It works perfectly now.

The only problem is that is not a very elegant solution. Maybe I need a stiffer spring? What size would you guys recommend? Where can I get them? Are there shims that can be used? My spacer is an ugly cobbled thing. I would like to put a better solution on the sled. I can't tell what color the original spring is. Maybe black?

Any help is appreciated.

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1970 Ski Doo TNT 292 Bogie (Restored)
1974 Ski Doo Elan (Habs - custom)
Joe Olympique
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Re:1972 Nordic running rough
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2013, 06:07:18 PM »
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Job well done with the seal replacement. Gives me the confidence to take that approach, got a 72 TNT 340 that may be seeping.
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64: Alpine. 66 Olympique. 67 Alpine. 70: 12/3, 335. 71: 292, 775, No-dick 399, Valmont, Auto-ski Torrino 440.  72: 340, 440, 775, No-dick 440. 73: elan 250T.  75 Racoon Elan. 78 Olympique 340. 83 Yamaha Bravo
Doo640ER
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Re:1972 Nordic running rough
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2013, 06:29:38 PM »
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On my 640 Nordic, the chaincase is able to move toward the primary quite a bit if I loosen the bolts that mount the chaincase to the chassis.  Your's won't move like this?  How is the bearing on the primary,..the one between the two sheave halves?  If its frozen-up this might be contributing to the problem.  Your're sure you have the correct drive belt installed?   
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67 Olympique 250
70 TNT 292 (slides)
70 Olympique 12/3
70 Ski Boose MK I
72 Nordic 640ER
75 Olympique 300
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81 Citation 4500e (2)
02 Legend GS 600
2011 GSX LE 600 E-tec
GaWajn
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Re:1972 Nordic running rough
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2013, 08:37:13 PM »
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Original belt from Bombardier in 1972 = same size as the replacement I bought. Bearing is free... I will try again to move driven pulley towards the drive ...
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1970 Ski Doo TNT 292 Bogie (Restored)
1974 Ski Doo Elan (Habs - custom)
GaWajn
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Re:1972 Nordic running rough
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2013, 08:42:02 AM »
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Here you can see what spacer I used ... a spring retainer off of an old engine I had kicking around ...



Not the best solution ... but it works for now ... until I find the definitive answer ...
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1970 Ski Doo TNT 292 Bogie (Restored)
1974 Ski Doo Elan (Habs - custom)
GaWajn
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Re:1972 Nordic running rough
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2013, 09:46:25 AM »
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I finally got the bolts holding the chain case loose. There is some play for adjusting, but not enough in this case. I am wondering what clutch spring was original with these sleds? What optional springs are available for this application? Does anyone out there have some of these stiffer springs?

Original length of the spring = 2 13/16th ... TNT 340 and 440 were 2 15/16th.

Any help is appreciated ...
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 10:00:11 AM by GaWajn » Report to moderator Logged

1970 Ski Doo TNT 292 Bogie (Restored)
1974 Ski Doo Elan (Habs - custom)
Doo640ER
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Re:1972 Nordic running rough
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2013, 02:47:07 PM »
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Wish I could help you with the spring info, but I'm currently at a loss

If you think the spring is weak and compressed then one thing you can try (I never have attempted it myself) is stretching the spring back out.  I've only heard of people doing it but some claim it works.  To me it sounds risky and I can't figure out a way right now to do it safely.  Somehow figure out a way to pull hard on both ends of the spring.  Even if its only a temporary fix, it may at least confirm your suspicions that the spring is the major cause of your issues.
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67 Olympique 250
70 TNT 292 (slides)
70 Olympique 12/3
70 Ski Boose MK I
72 Nordic 640ER
75 Olympique 300
Chrystler Sno Runner (2)
81 Citation 4500e (2)
02 Legend GS 600
2011 GSX LE 600 E-tec
1970TNT
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Re:1972 Nordic running rough
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2013, 04:16:27 PM »
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SPRING IS A BLACK ONE

PART NUMBER IS 414 0013 USED ON A 292 640 775 IN 72

ALL 71 USED THIS SPRING SINGLES AND TWINS -

ALSO ALL 70 SLEDS SINGLE AND TWINS YETI
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1970TNT
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Re:1972 Nordic running rough
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2013, 04:17:33 PM »
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I MAY HAVE A NOS ONE???
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Re:1972 Nordic running rough
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2013, 05:13:21 PM »
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4140013 was used on all 1968-72 models except Blizzards, and most 1973 models.
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Former Bombi  Dealer 1992-2003
GaWajn
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Re:1972 Nordic running rough
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2013, 06:36:06 PM »
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Ok then. I would have to assume that my spring is weak ... or compressed ...  time to search for a new one maybe ...
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1970 Ski Doo TNT 292 Bogie (Restored)
1974 Ski Doo Elan (Habs - custom)
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Re:1972 Nordic running rough
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2013, 08:23:14 PM »
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What is your idle speed set at?
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GaWajn
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Re:1972 Nordic running rough
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2013, 11:22:53 AM »
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No tach ... but feels like around 1800 to 2200. If I try to run the idle lower than where it is ... it will die.

I have a new carb kit in the tilly and it pops at 10.5 PSI. I had an old timer look at it, and he think that the carb is set just fine, and the idle speed is not  really too high.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2013, 11:28:14 AM by GaWajn » Report to moderator Logged

1970 Ski Doo TNT 292 Bogie (Restored)
1974 Ski Doo Elan (Habs - custom)
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