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  1970 292 T'NT part deux!
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1970TNT
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Re:1970 292 T'NT part deux!
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2018, 12:20:14 PM »
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GAWAJN HOW DID U CLEAN THE CARB? GOT A REAL NASTY ONE I NEED TO CLEAN? TKS YETI
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Re:1970 292 T'NT part deux!
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2018, 02:17:29 AM »
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I gave it a bit of cleaning in the parts washer ... then rinsed with brake clean ... then a bit on glass beading in the blast cabinet ... then into the ultrasonic cleaner for a 20 minute bath in half and half ... Pine Sol (citrus) and water.
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1970 Ski Doo TNT 292 Bogie (Restored)
1974 Ski Doo Elan (Habs - custom)
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Re:1970 292 T'NT part deux!
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2018, 02:24:28 AM »
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And for  Doo640ER ... the paint I used is:

SHERWIN WILLIAMS brand : formula ... 135B-1387274-00

It is a base coat.
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1970 Ski Doo TNT 292 Bogie (Restored)
1974 Ski Doo Elan (Habs - custom)
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Re:1970 292 T'NT part deux!
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2018, 11:09:51 AM »
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I spent the day in the shop ... got a lot done ...



Got the skis assembled with new runners etc ...



Guess who forgot to install the wear saddles on the skis before painting ... DOH! Oh well ... they might look cool once they start turning that tarnished copper vert de gris 





Goose rubber ...



And then onto the track installation ...



Drivers and rear sprockets are Kimpex items ... with stainless hardware ...



NOS stock was used for the track adjusters ... all except the bushings which were cleaned and reused ...



That track is in great shape ...



Bogies installed ...





Coming along nicely ...







That will do for today ... whew!

« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 11:11:40 AM by GaWajn » Report to moderator Logged

1970 Ski Doo TNT 292 Bogie (Restored)
1974 Ski Doo Elan (Habs - custom)
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Re:1970 292 T'NT part deux!
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2018, 10:03:17 AM »
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I tore the engine apart today ...



The clutch (incorrect) is worn out ...

The muffler has seen better days ...



I have one coming from Goose ...



It does have the correct fan shroud ...



The flywheel is no good ...



The cam is busted ...



The crank deflection is way out of spec ...



The bearings had spun in the case at one point. Someone applied the plastic insert fix to it. It was well done I think. Also ... the axial play in the rod's big end is out of spec with 22 thousanths of play ...



The cylinder is round but has too much taper. It needs to be bored out to the first over size (75.5mm)



When all is said and done ... this bottom end has just too many problems to fix that I would rather replace it with another. I am looking locally for an 1971 Elan bottom end which is identical to the 1970 292 assembly in all aspects ... and much easier to find

I will also be looking for a first over 1970 T'NT piston. I have a first over piston kit (Elko) but it's for a 1971 292 (ports not the same). Give me a shout if you have one that you would sell or trade( I have a small stash of NOS items, mostly ignition related).
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 10:15:51 AM by GaWajn » Report to moderator Logged

1970 Ski Doo TNT 292 Bogie (Restored)
1974 Ski Doo Elan (Habs - custom)
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Re:1970 292 T'NT part deux!
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2018, 04:38:45 AM »
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Quote from: GaWajn on February 12, 2018, 02:24:28 AM   

And for  Doo640ER ... the paint I used is:

SHERWIN WILLIAMS brand : formula ... 135B-1387274-00

It is a base coat.


Thank you for that information.  I will do some local research to see if I can Get that around here.
That poor motor has seen better days.... kind of sad but it looks like she had a good life and was well used, or maybe unfortunately abused?
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1970TNT
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Re:1970 292 T'NT part deux!
« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2018, 06:28:50 PM »
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Think I have a 292 1st over 70 will look yeti
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Re:1970 292 T'NT part deux!
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2018, 04:22:14 AM »
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This guy has been trying to sell a 71 elan for a while...
https://vermont.craigslist.org/snw/d/elan-and-ski-doo-citation/6427386233.html
prices are going up on those elans...
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Re:1970 292 T'NT part deux!
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2018, 07:19:35 AM »
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All right GaWajn....What gives here. You said the last black dot rebuild was too nice to drive so you were gonna not make one so nice for a "driver" I think you are on your way to another beauty  You are gonna have to find another for a driver 
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Re:1970 292 T'NT part deux!
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2018, 09:54:01 AM »
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BONES I THINK IT IS THAT NEW WEB SITE HE FOUND TO POST PICS MAYBE IT LETS YOU COLOR THE PIC YETI
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Re:1970 292 T'NT part deux!
« Reply #30 on: February 17, 2018, 12:53:57 PM »
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You guys crack me up! I promised myself ... this one I will drive!

A question for you Bones ... I am going to use a 1971 Elan bottom end which is the identical correct bottom for this engine build.

I have a 1970 cylinder and head.

Assuming that I can't find a correct 1970 T'NT piston in a first over ... will an angled skirt 1971/72 T'NT piston work? Or barring that ... an angled skirt OLY 76mm (Type 302)?

I have both the 1971 T'NT first over and the standard 76mm Oly type 302 in the ELKO brand.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2018, 12:55:48 PM by GaWajn » Report to moderator Logged

1970 Ski Doo TNT 292 Bogie (Restored)
1974 Ski Doo Elan (Habs - custom)
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Re:1970 292 T'NT part deux!
« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2018, 03:48:31 AM »
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I have found an engine from a 1971 Elan ... it is stuck though ... stuck bad! I will be trying to salvage the bottom end to use for this build ...
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1970 Ski Doo TNT 292 Bogie (Restored)
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Re:1970 292 T'NT part deux!
« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2018, 03:26:16 PM »
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SENT YA AN EMAIL YETI
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GaWajn
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Re:1970 292 T'NT part deux!
« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2018, 03:28:33 AM »
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So the secondary plan was to try and find a 1971 Elan bottom end to replace the ''less than perfect'' case halves of the original 292. The parts manuals state that these assemblies are identical. The original crank from the 292 was not very good with a slight bend in the rod ... so I needed a crank anyways ...

You would think that these 71 Elan engines would be a dime a dozen right? Usually they are. I have had many in the past ... but because I needed one ASAP ... I could not find one

Well ... I travelled about 100 miles to get one ... that was stuck. My thinking is that if I can get it unstuck to save the bottom end ... all is good. I traded the guy a 72 engine that was not stuck so he was happy.



So there is sits ... in all it's glory ...

The original owner said he soaked it in diesel for a couple of weeks and there was no change ...it sure smelled like it for sure!



After the engine was stirpped to what you see in the photo ... I was able to wiggle some movement out of the crank ... eventually the crank seemed to have full movement. The only thing that was stuck was the piston in the cylinder.



Oh boy! Is it ever stuck. There ain't no concoction of free it up juice out there that is gonna loosen this baby up! That's for sure!



I decided to try a different method from what I usually do. Since the cylinder was free of the crankcase ... I removed the studs and split the case while the cylinder was still attached to the crank.



This is the setup I ended up using. The pipe is almost the piston size so that the pressure is applied towards the piston sides and not the crown.



The crank is just resting on the press. There is no pressure applied to the crank at all while pressing down on the piston. This setup allows clearance for the piston to travel down the cylinder as it passes the steel supports.



In theory ... this setup was pretty much the cat's meow! However ... the piston had other ideas. It took some heat ... no ... it took a LOT of heat to get it unstuck! But unstuck it became ...



A little cooling time is in order ...



The crank proved to be in great shape. In fact ... the engine appeared to have never been opened ... and all components seemed in good condition. The piston may clean up with a scuff pad. What do you think Bones?

One thing I noticed on the case halves. Even though they look identical to the original 292 case parts ... have the same numbers on the parts ... have the same numbers in the books ... the original case halves have an oiling hole on each half that the Elan model does not.





So! Even if the parts are supposed to be the same ... and fit the same ... and the books say they are the same ... they are NOT QUITE the same!

I am going to go with the original parts because of the oiling holes. The plastic inserts that were put into the original case seem to have been well fitted so I have no issues with reusing them. Some of the surfaces will need some doctoring ... but all should be ok ...
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Re:1970 292 T'NT part deux!
« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2018, 08:01:10 AM »
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Quote from: GaWajn on February 17, 2018, 12:53:57 PM   

You guys crack me up! I promised myself ... this one I will drive!

A question for you Bones ... I am going to use a 1971 Elan bottom end which is the identical correct bottom for this engine build.

I have a 1970 cylinder and head.

Assuming that I can't find a correct 1970 T'NT piston in a first over ... will an angled skirt 1971/72 T'NT piston work? Or barring that ... an angled skirt OLY 76mm (Type 302)?

I have both the 1971 T'NT first over and the standard 76mm Oly type 302 in the ELKO brand.

GaWajn, sorry I missed this post 
I know I have posted that the straight cut transfer and the angled transfers are not the best inter-changed, well......I am not so sure about that, The 71 - 292 cylinder is made like the 72 cylinder, (transfers in bottom of jug are more toward the exhaust side), but the sleeve in the cylinder is actually the same sleeve as the 70 cylinder  At least that is what I observed, unless some one had changed a sleeve at one time and I am not aware of it ??
I ran a 71 cylinder ( forward transfers on jug/centered transfers in sleeve) with a 300/320 Oly piston and it worked just fine. Didn`t have it on a dyno etc but for trail use, it was good.
So I guess you call GaWajn.
The 70 to 71 - 292 and 70 to 71 - 340 followed the same changes, 70 - low crown piston and smaller head combustion chamber, 71 - high crown piston and larger combustion chamber. I doo know if you install a 71 - 340 piston with a 70 - 340 head you will have a major wreck, the high piston hits the small head, yikes !!!
I can not say for sure what the 292 does with that mix-match, I don`t think it would be good.
If you run the 71 piston you have then I really think you should find anduse a 71-72 head.
The 71 piston you have.......Does it have 2 R rings or 1 L and 1 R ring

I doo have (I think) a 76 mm SnoMax piston with 70 style crown and centered transfers. I believe the early SnoMax are good, made by Hepolite in England, not like the newer SnoMax that were made in the same place as the off shore pistons of today. If you are interesed in that I would sell or trade.
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Re:1970 292 T'NT part deux!
« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2018, 08:12:28 AM »
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Quote from: GaWajn on February 23, 2018, 03:28:33 AM   




The crank proved to be in great shape. In fact ... the engine appeared to have never been opened ... and all components seemed in good condition. The piston may clean up with a scuff pad. What do you think Bones?


Oh for sure you could clean it up and use it  Might want to see if you can get at least one of the rings moving a bit, then it`ll be good to go 
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Re:1970 292 T'NT part deux!
« Reply #36 on: February 24, 2018, 03:13:09 AM »
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Thanks for the reply Bones.

I will be going with the 76mm ELKO Oly piston. The piston and cylinder are gone to the engine machine shop already ... but thanks for the Snowmax piston offer ...

On a side note ... I went to visit a friend of mine who used to do crank work for the local Bombardier dealer. I wanted him to show me how to adjust the single crank for twist and runout. It's a fairly crude way of doing things ... but it works. Seems like brass hammers are still the way to go in Valcourt today also. I may do a video (comedy?) of me trying to adjust the runout of a crank ... maybe someday ...
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Re:1970 292 T'NT part deux!
« Reply #37 on: February 24, 2018, 06:16:25 PM »
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Quote from: GaWajn on February 12, 2018, 02:17:29 AM   

I gave it a bit of cleaning in the parts washer ... then rinsed with brake clean ... then a bit on glass beading in the blast cabinet ... then into the ultrasonic cleaner for a 20 minute bath in half and half ... Pine Sol (citrus) and water.


GaWajn is that pine sol the lemon brand or is it say citrus on the bottle.
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Re:1970 292 T'NT part deux!
« Reply #38 on: February 25, 2018, 02:10:40 AM »
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Citrus ... although it may not make much of a difference. The micro bubbling is what does the trick. Not the chemical makeup of the liquid.
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Re:1970 292 T'NT part deux!
« Reply #39 on: February 26, 2018, 09:02:29 AM »
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THERE HAVE BEEN RUMORS THAT SOMEONE IS PLANTING A CITRUS GROVE IN NEW BRUNWICK THE SMELL OF ORANGES IS VERY STRONG IN THAT AREA                
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