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  Anyone done a modern CD conversion in a single?
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   Author  Topic: Anyone done a modern CD conversion in a single?  (Read 5712 times)
lowtekrednek
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Re:Anyone done a modern CD conversion in a single?
« Reply #20 on: February 25, 2011, 04:25:03 PM »
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on the twins (73-75 free air) the key is at the 12 o clock position when the mag side piston is at tdc, on the mid 80s doos the key is at about 3 o clock (most are, some are 9 o clock), BUT  the stator is also twisted to make up for the difference.

thanks, Bones for the clarification on the RV stuff, and the blizzard stuff.
my 645 has a really small shaft in the mag side, so, i have a hunch that the twins might be the same...???

oh yeah, the trigger on the nipp is that there is a magnet in the flywheel that is opposite pole as the other three
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j3greg
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Re:Anyone done a modern CD conversion in a single?
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2011, 02:28:16 PM »
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Quote from: lowtekrednek on February 25, 2011, 04:25:03 PM   


oh yeah, the trigger on the nipp is that there is a magnet in the flywheel that is opposite pole as the other three


That's right LowTek -  it is the changing polarity that triggers the ND system. 

However - the 277 has TWO alternate sets  two magnets one way two magnets the other.  That is why the same magnet ring works on both the 277 and 377  the spark happens at both TDC and BDC on both cylinders. (even the 277 get two sparks)

So far every other single cylinder flywheel I have  - 292/300/335/340  has the same arrangement  4 magnets and 2 sets of polarity    (I check with a small maget - either attracks or repels) 

Sorta Makes Sense - that arrangement creates AC power  - that's why Electric Start Models need rectifier to charge battery

When we talked at St Germain - I wasn't sure about that
Now it would seem the hub is of no concern.  Use whatever fits your particular engine

Use the standard flywheel and just re-key to proper spot  (same for twins)

Key thing to be sure of - 4 magnets - opposite polarity sets - and the same diameter magnet ring. 

« Last Edit: February 28, 2011, 06:39:24 AM by j3greg » Report to moderator Logged
Blizzard GR
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Re:Anyone done a modern CD conversion in a single?
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2011, 06:17:05 AM »
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j3greg, (and others also!), I want to send out a big THANK YOU for keeping this post going and sharing your knowledge.  My friend has exhausted all contacts looking for Citation CD units over the past week and I thought we were done -  so now after reading these posts, this breathes new life into this.  I have been gone for work and just got back and was excited to read all this.  Wow you guys are amazing with this information!

John
« Last Edit: February 28, 2011, 06:17:58 AM by Blizzard GR » Report to moderator Logged

My stuff:
# Phil Mickelson's Open Class alky Blizzard he ran from 1970-'72.
# Larry Rugland's factory 1976 Ski-Doo 440 liquid Sno-pro.
# 1999 Mini-Z for when the grandkids visit
# 1975 Can-am 125 T'nt
lowtekrednek
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Re:Anyone done a modern CD conversion in a single?
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2011, 06:36:45 PM »
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still trying to research the one lunger conversion, my magnet testing has been inconclusive, might have to just try it.

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j3greg
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Re:Anyone done a modern CD conversion in a single?
« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2011, 02:39:15 PM »
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Quote from: lowtekrednek on March 15, 2011, 06:36:45 PM   

still trying to research the one lunger conversion, my magnet testing has been inconclusive, might have to just try it.

Lowtek  - I use one of those little screwdrivers with the magnet in the end - let it swing in your fingers

trick is to do it in the middle of the magnet - not the ends

my camera doesn't do good close ups but here is how I do it

Attract


Repel



« Last Edit: March 18, 2011, 02:42:07 PM by j3greg » Report to moderator Logged
lowtekrednek
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Re:Anyone done a modern CD conversion in a single?
« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2011, 05:44:35 PM »
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i will re-try it

then have to figure out where to locate the exciter coil
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Blizzard GR
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Re:Anyone done a modern CD conversion in a single?
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2011, 08:44:06 AM »
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Hi guys,

I have been playing around with a unit also, etc and I  will have an update and questions soon   

Thanks!

John
« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 08:46:50 AM by Blizzard GR » Report to moderator Logged

My stuff:
# Phil Mickelson's Open Class alky Blizzard he ran from 1970-'72.
# Larry Rugland's factory 1976 Ski-Doo 440 liquid Sno-pro.
# 1999 Mini-Z for when the grandkids visit
# 1975 Can-am 125 T'nt
Blizzard GR
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Re:Anyone done a modern CD conversion in a single?
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2011, 08:20:39 AM »
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OK guys, here is another option I have been looking at for the last 2 months. It has been so busy, that I haven’t updated here lately.

Anyway, a friend had a 1975 Can-am 250 bike that was blown and he let me look at it for I had an idea that came to me about the CD on those bikes.  I used to race a Can-am MX1 in motocross that I bought new in 1974, so I was familiar with those ignitions. 

My friend let me I pull the flywheel off his and the stator and I was impressed in that I think it would work if I used an alum plate behind it (ala 1976 RV super mod kit) to put the stator in and then bolt it into the case.  I started doing more research on these Can-am ignitions and it looks like in 1977 they went to a 6 pole unit and used the same CD box as the 1977 CC RV and the 440 oval Blizzards.  My friend said this summer he would let me play with the ignition on a single Blizzard.  There seems to be a good supply of Can-am ignitions at bike salvage yards.  I love the look of the little silver CD box on the 1974-76 Can-am's.

I don’t know if the hub in the flywheel is the same as the single Blizzard, but seeing the hub is riveted, I think I could swap out the hub.

What do you guys think?  Anyone been down this road?

John
« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 08:24:18 AM by Blizzard GR » Report to moderator Logged

My stuff:
# Phil Mickelson's Open Class alky Blizzard he ran from 1970-'72.
# Larry Rugland's factory 1976 Ski-Doo 440 liquid Sno-pro.
# 1999 Mini-Z for when the grandkids visit
# 1975 Can-am 125 T'nt
hermit
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Re:Anyone done a modern CD conversion in a single?
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2011, 08:50:44 AM »
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The guy at Label X Motorsports just advertised they have a Nipp CDI for TNt singles so it has to work with the Blizz if they made the taper the same as a twin which is what the single blizzards have. Just a thought. Someone could call LabelX.
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j3greg
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Re:Anyone done a modern CD conversion in a single?
« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2011, 04:42:52 PM »
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Quote from: hermit on April 19, 2011, 08:50:44 AM   

The guy at Label X Motorsports just advertised they have a Nipp CDI for TNt singles so it has to work with the Blizz if they made the taper the same as a twin which is what the single blizzards have. Just a thought. Someone could call LabelX.

Where did they Advertise?
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decoy706
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Re:Anyone done a modern CD conversion in a single?
« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2011, 04:51:53 PM »
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Here's his add it's posted here
   
    new 340 crankshafts
« on: April 16, 2011, 02:59:48 PM »    
We are having a run of 340 single cyl cranks built for racing engines, much like our 292 Yami cranks that are a must in the open classes. The changes to the stock design are (off the shelf) dual bearing PTO end, larger journals both MAG and PTO for more strength, an off the shelf late model Ski Doo connecting rod, a revised PTO seal plate,  and the common 30mm taper on the PTO end for use with a Cat or Polaris primary for the ultimate performance in the open classes.
These will be available beginning of July. Please call us to reserve one. We will offer a package deal this summer for someone interested in sending their cases to us and let us professionally assemble the bottom end with new seals and complete gasket set. Optional Nip CDI ignitions upon request.
Call Label X Motorsports at (207) 933-3120
   
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70Oly399
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Re:Anyone done a modern CD conversion in a single?
« Reply #31 on: June 10, 2011, 12:24:15 PM »
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I just picked up three citation LS from 86-87 with the 253 single.  I haven't really looked yet but it seems like I can make 2 good riders and the third is a parts sled.  Engine #3 is seized up so I may try my hand at using its ignition on a 340 single.  This thread has given me some idea where to start my research.  Keep the info coming.
Erich
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lowtekrednek
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Re:Anyone done a modern CD conversion in a single?
« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2011, 12:49:26 PM »
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I have a new idea......

gonna do some cutting and drilling today
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lowtekrednek
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Re:Anyone done a modern CD conversion in a single?
« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2011, 07:01:27 PM »
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some machining.......
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lowtekrednek
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Re:Anyone done a modern CD conversion in a single?
« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2011, 05:51:08 PM »
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the parts are at a friends place getting machined,
  yes, I am a machinist by trade, but would rather fabricate than machine, so I trade skills with my friend.

we will have results soon

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Re:Anyone done a modern CD conversion in a single?
« Reply #35 on: July 23, 2011, 08:38:37 PM »
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Sweet I cant wait to be part of this!!!!
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swamprat
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Re:Anyone done a modern CD conversion in a single?
« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2011, 07:02:10 PM »
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Quote from: j3greg on February 24, 2011, 05:18:33 PM   

OK - Had been holding on to this thinking it might be a business opportunity - but what the hey who says I’m a good business guy …..  And in full disclosure mode - I have not done this on a 335 yet but have done it on a 277 and everything looks to measure up correctly on a 335/340 and most likely all singles using a Bosch point system

The Ultralight community has been converting 277 Bosch point systems to ND CDI for years

There is a company in Arizona - Airscrew performance Sells the complete conversion kit  $275 (last year)

The 277 point flywheel magnet  ring  is the same diameter as the 335/340  and other singles It may actually be the same - but I have haven't dug into part numbers

The 277 point flywheel uses 4 magnets same as  335/340 point and  277 ND CDI  flywheel


Here is what you get in the kit  - he uses aftermarket parts that may not be what I reference for aftermarket

Item               rotax #        aftermarket

1) CDI  box            Rotax 420-866-595    Kimpex      01-299
2) stator gen coil         420-866-635      Marshall    11-1347
3) external ign coil      420-866-660        Mfg supply  01-113
4) roll pin                  NA                                  5/32  pin

Or get yourself a few used parts.  The stator coil and the CDI box are the same that were used on most trail sleds between mid 80's and early 90s  The key to identifying a ND stator - is the horseshoe shaped lighting coil. When you look up these parts you will see how one size fits all they are

The first part is pretty easy -  the CDI trigger coil assembly is the same size and shape as the ignition coil on a point Stator   

Take your coil off the point stator (internal ignition or charging coil if external ign).  Bolt in the CDI coil    Your lighting coil stays

On the outside find a place to bolt the coil and box

Run the wires between the three pieces ( if you are using new parts you will need to hard wire the stator coil to the box  it does not come with the plug ) 

Part two not really hard but kinda a PIA

Put the flywheel on  - loose nut no key    find a convenient place to put a mark on the case  -  rotate the flywheel  to top dead center  -  mark the flywheel opposite the mark on the case .

Now here comes the tedious part .  Spin the engine by hand  - like you were starting it  -  with a timing light see where it is firing in relation to the TDC marks  Move the flywheel to get it closer  try again

Ultimately what you are trying to do is get  the engine firing at TDC  “AT CRANKING SPEED”.    The beauty is - the CDI box will advance it automatically from there when the engine is actually running.

Step Three -  The hard part  -  Once you know where the flywheel needs to be - you need to lock it down.  One way is to re-cut the keyway in the flywheel in the correct spot

The other way is what the Arizona kit does -  using a drill bit - drill straight into the crankshaft where the current flywheel keyway  is -  insert a roll-pin in place of the true key. Put the nut back on and away you go.

That’s it your done  -  Royalty payments can be sent to me 


The Stators

The "Kit from Arizona"

I'm a new be on this site,but i'm glad i'm here this is some great info,can i steal the info for non yellow use,and yellow also of course ,thanks!!
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Poidy
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Re:Anyone done a modern CD conversion in a single?
« Reply #37 on: October 19, 2017, 09:41:03 AM »
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that the same as this which was mentioned on FB elan site?  https://www.facebook.com/RMStator/?hc_ref=ARRd5igm8RA0tW1XiHkbsJ43Wb8d9BwvlmA2IvsVo9Atet0exs5pNCMjr5RXARQbz8E&fref=gs&dti=165106703511686&hc_location=group
RMStator?
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http://poidy.pages.qpg.com/index.html
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