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Print Page Official L.E.M.U.R. Discussion Board
    Brown Mountain Lights => Brown Mountain Discussion Board => Message started by: yonahmtn253 on June 12, 2006, 11:59:25 AM
	

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Title: Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: yonahmtn253 on June 12, 2006, 11:59:25 AM

I know much as been written, speculated, studied...you name it about the lights. After hearing Cindy at Parkview's encounter with an upclose orb of light, I came to my own conclusion. I have been an orthodox Christian forever but I have begun to search for more on the divinity of God as a Divine Light." In the beginning was Light" is how Genesis begins. I feel that we all have a divine light inside us and that when our earthly body dies our light lives on. Just think of all the people who have had near death experiences. What do they always see first...A LIGHT! To me this makes the most sense of all. Cindy said that the light approached them but they did not feel afraid. Maybe these are lost or tormented souls that have not found their way to heaven or beyond. This phenenomon has been most reported to be seen on BML but it is also occuring in other places now (Thomas Divide ). Maybe these lights are trying to communicate with us in some way and have something of importance to tell us. I'm not a UFO believer but I have become a Gnostic Believer. Gnostic mean knowledge, this knowledge is an inner light that resides in each of us.


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: parkviewlodge on June 14, 2006, 05:56:14 PM

I have always felt these lights have an intelligence. And yes like you. I'm not so sure about the UFO idea. Although my husband and children witnessed a UFO at Wisemens View many years ago. I am not opposed to the lights being UFO's. Just not sure. I tend to lean toward the spirit idea. But that is my personality. I have seen spirit, I understand spirits. And UFO's scare me just a bit.

It was great spending time with you this weekend. And we will go to Wisemans View next time your here ....together. I enjoyed my saturday evening at Wisemans View, but I knew I would not see any of the lights. There was some negative engery there. With all the research folks.

The lights are gifts not always shared. WE were given the gift of the music and the good weather and the beautiful full moon over Table Rock.

Cindy


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: Charles on June 14, 2006, 06:27:59 PM


Quote:
I know much as been written, speculated, studied...you name it about the lights.[/quote][quote]I have always felt these lights have an intelligence.

From the lab experiment conducted by L.E.M.U.R., it appears the mystery has been solved. Their experiments on recreating the Lights (http://shadowboxent.brinkster.net/brownplasma.html) confirm the long held belief that the lights are an electromagnetic plasma phenomenon resulting from the peculiar geology of the mountains in that area.


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: yonahmtn253 on June 18, 2006, 05:37:47 PM

I believe that LEMUR thinks it is a plasma formed for the geology of the mountain but I also believe that this plasma has life to it. I still stick with my theory that we were all created from The Light and we return to the light when we die. How do you explain all the orbs of light that have been found in haunted places? Are these som mysterious forms of plasma, too? I think that BMLs have a spirit to them.


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: nik347mhz on June 22, 2006, 01:12:11 PM

I believe when we see 'orbs'. that we are looking at the human soul and that it is a component of existance while living in this realm. I think there are More true orbs in our photos than dust particles.


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: nik347mhz on July 19, 2006, 03:09:32 PM

When there is 'purpose' to their movement that can't be delegated to being 'random' then there's something more to it than say the Southern Light effect . .
otherwise known as "Austrailius Borealis".
There seems to be something there if people are being followed. Is there a sense of 'watching' or of feeling like you are not alone?


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: nik347mhz on July 19, 2006, 03:13:34 PM

I meant to mention about sound. While taking a video anyone if you can, I wonder if it could be delegated to a DVR for AV examination? I'm sure Joshua's team would be more than happy to accomidate you


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: Charles on July 19, 2006, 08:09:07 PM

I also believe that this plasma has life to it.[/quote]
Why do you think this electromagnetic plasma meets the current qualifications for life as defined by biologists ?

[1] Organized structures that are composed of heterogeneous chemicals - in units of "cells"
[2] Metabolism: chemical and energy transformations
[3] Maintain internal conditions separated from an outside environment: homeostasis
[4] Growth: conversion of materials from the environment into components of organism
[5] Reaction to select stimuli, physiologically and/or behaviorally
[6] Reproduction: making copies of individuals via the mechanism of genetic transfer: sections of DNA molecules that contain instructions for organization & metabolism
[7] Evolution: change in characteristics of individuals, resulting from mutation & natural selection - these result in adaptations
[quote]I still stick with my theory that we were all created from The Light[/quote]
What is your foundation upon which this hypothesis is based ? What is this “Light” you refer to ? You wording suggests you are not using the word in its standard meaning. Are you assigning a religious meaning to this plasma ?
[quote]How do you explain all the orbs of light that have been found in haunted places? Are these som mysterious forms of plasma, too?[/quote]
There are several origins for the orbs – the vast majority of them are images produced by light reflecting from dust particles or water droplets close to the camera lens which render them out of focus.

[size=0">nik347mhz said:
[quote]I believe when we see 'orbs'. that we are looking at the human soul and that it is a component of existance while living in this realm.[/quote]
This is a common belief. But it assumes the existence of the soul, for which there is no evidence. It then further assumes that the soul can exist outside the body, for which there is no evidence. And it assumes that this unknown entity can transform itself into some form of matter or energy which can be photographed, and that it would allow itself to be photographed after the death of its host. Does this seem like too many unsupported assumptions ?
[quote]When there is 'purpose' to their movement that can't be delegated to being 'random' then there's something more to it than say the Southern Light effect[/quote]
Do you have evidence that there has ever been a purpose to the movement of the BML rather than their motion being random ? I have never read of any patterns or organization being observed in their motion. Have you ? Your use of the word ‘purpose’ suggests you think there is a cognitive ability embodied in this plasma. Is that what you are suggesting ? The lightning produced by storms is also electromagnetic plasma. Do you think there could be a ‘purpose’ to those plasma displays too ?
[quote]There seems to be something there if people are being followed

Virtually all of the sightings of the BML are from a great distance. There are no reliable reports of people being on the mountain in the midst of the lights and seeing them close up. Why do you think they have been known to follow people ?


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: nik347mhz on July 20, 2006, 12:36:46 PM

Firstly, it's purely speculation that they are in fact plasma and this is where 'ongoing investigation' comes in and 'that' is why we have 'ongoing discussion'. Otherwise it's assumption and presumption. With the DVR analysis we can bring it as far as we are able to bring it 'up to this point 'until' we find a new process and THAT is why science only goes so far after all we JUST developed the ion engine 'didn't we'. But keep the faith there's always something new around the corner
(as far as this physical realm is concerned)


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: yonahmtn253 on July 20, 2006, 05:14:04 PM

I have no scientific evidence to prove anything. I guess I rely on my spiritual beliefs. The "Light" is something that lies in each of us whether we are religious or not. It is the soul and the heart. There is light in plants, rocks, etc. Do you not feel this plasma has some kind of life to it or do you think it is a scientific investigation? We all have our opinions and I respect yours as I hope you do mine! I am somewhat of a romantic who still wants to think it is a spirit, a past life, a living life that still exists in these Blue Ridge Mountains.

All I know is after all the different experiences that people have had with the BML on this Discussion Board, it is not to be dismissed as scientific plasma that has no life!


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: Charles on July 20, 2006, 07:54:12 PM


Quote:
I have no scientific evidence to prove anything. I guess I rely on my spiritual beliefs. The "Light" is something that lies in each of us whether we are religious or not. It is the soul and the heart.[/quote]
Spiritualism, mysticism, and religion offer little support when it comes to understanding natural phenomena and the laws of the universe. Those three philosophies ground themselves in the realm of the supernatural for which there are no rules, other than what each person chooses to make up for himself. For example, some say that dwelling inside each of us is a “Darkness” that struggles to return us to the Well of Evil from which everything we know sprang in ages past. Which mystical theory is true ? We have no way to tell – the supernatural realm does not permit us to test any hypothesis. Every moment the rules of the supernatural change.
[quote]There is light in plants, rocks,…[/quote]
One can believe this on faith, but there is no evidence of this. And we have studied plants and rocks very extensively. Suppose we assume that there is some undiscovered inner aspect of mysterious “light” within all things. What can we do with that knowledge ? If we can’t use that knowledge to accomplish something measurable, how do we know it is there ?
[quote] Do you not feel this plasma has some kind of life to it or do you think it is a scientific investigation?[/quote]
I believe the preponderance of the evidence supports the hypothesis that the BML are a natural, electromagnetic plasma phenomenon. I do not believe they are ghosts or spiritual manifestations or alien life forms or the by-products of an omnipresent mystical “Light”.
[quote]We all have our opinions and I respect yours as I hope you do mine![/quote]
While I respect your right to have your own opinion, that is not the same as respecting the opinion itself. Science is not about respecting opinions. It relies upon testability, falsifiability, and plausibility. Our knowledge of the universe is based upon this process.
[quote] I am somewhat of a romantic who still wants to think it is a spirit, a past life, a living life that still exists in these Blue Ridge Mountains.[/quote]
That’s ok. But I hope you understand that we will never find useful answers to real-world questions with such philosophy. There was a time that people believed disease was God’s punishment of a person for doing something bad. If we had followed that view, medicine would have never evolved.
[quote] All I know is after all the different experiences that people have had with the BML on this Discussion Board, it is not to be dismissed as scientific plasma that has no life!

I first saw the BML 40 years ago. They were very impressive. Since then, I have read many, many accounts of people’s sightings of them. Nothing I have ever read leads me to believe that these lights have prescience, intelligence, organization, will power, or any connection to a supernatural world.


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: yonahmtn253 on July 21, 2006, 07:10:07 AM

WHATEVER, CHARLES! ::)...... ;)


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: nik347mhz on July 21, 2006, 12:30:46 PM

As I said earlier, there seems to be a sence of purpose and order with the movement of these lights. Too many have reported being followed. The Northern lights don't 'follow' people and it's determined that they take on a similar structure to very bright orbs.


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: nik347mhz on July 21, 2006, 12:38:33 PM

As I said before, these lights have a sense of purpose, they are structured similar to orbs and they seem to have a sense of purpose to their movement. There have been too many people that have apparently been followed.
Has anyone use the meters on them, EMF and EVP?
Fully investigate them along those lines. They certainly are attracting a lot of people. Is there a sense of someone watching? The feeling, I mean. We do have an inner radar that alerts us and gives us just a modicum response if it's nothing but a lightning storm with nothing but electricity. If the video DVRs were examined you might find something.


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: Charles on July 21, 2006, 04:15:33 PM


Quote:
There have been too many people that have apparently been followed.

In all of the reports I have read over the years, I have never read this. Can you give us the links to the sites where these people you refer to have reported being followed on the mountain by the lights ? That would be helpful.


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: yonahmtn253 on July 21, 2006, 06:28:07 PM

Look at the post "Chased by the lights?" There are others.
Charles face it. You are scientifically trying to explain this phenomonon and I am romancing the idea that it is a spirit. We're on different ends of the spectrum.

Quote from strrynght514:
My husband and I were at the Wisemans View lookout on November 5, 2005 and watched plenty of lights. I've seen them several times, it was his first time up there. When I saw them in the past they stayed over on the ridge and maybe halfway down to the creek below. This time there were 3 reddish orange lights down in the creek area around 6:00 pm. One went out, another stayed down there but the 3rd light kept getting closer. It was probably about halfway between the creek and the lookout and gaining speed and brightness when my husband decided it was time to go. Once we got up to the paved walkway we started to really hurry. He told me not to look back (I get the freeze reaction) but I did anyway. The light shot up above the lookout where we had been standing and came straight towards us like it was chasing us. When I looked back again it was gone. Has anyone else had the lights appear to be chasing them? I've never heard of this before. Since we don't know what they are we werent going to stick around to find out either. We are going to try to go back this weekend and hopefully we will see it again and stay a bit longer. Please share your stories if anyone has had something similar happen. Thanks! ;D


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: Charles on July 22, 2006, 01:01:57 PM


Quote:
You are scientifically trying to explain this phenomonon and I am romancing the idea that it is a spirit. We're on different ends of the spectrum.[/quote]
Obviously, but in its investigations of paranormal phenomena, the LEMUR team chooses to use the scientific method. That is how they conducted their experiment to recreate the plasma that supports their hypothesis that the BML are an electromagnetic plasma phenomenon.

Fantasy and romance do not offer any way to test anything, so using those approaches is not compatible with the scientific method. I do not know of any empirical method for collecting real, measurable data to test the “spirit” hypothesis. So believing that hypothesis becomes a matter of faith – which is fine as long as one recognizes that.

When visitors come here looking for information about the nature and origin of the BML, they should get the best information available. So they should know that while they are free to believe things like the lights are ghosts of Indian warriors or dead slaves searching for their masters, spirit beings from another dimension, extraterrestrial probes collecting information, fairies or wood sprites, super secret military projects, or any of the other “romantic” theories some might post here – all of these fall into the “least plausible hypothesis” category. There is no evidence to support them, but there is evidence that provides a more plausible answer. Those who prefer to still believe that they are ghosts certainly have that right. But the question that leaps forth is “why would someone want to believe something for which there is not a shred of evidence ?”
[quote]The light shot up above the lookout where we had been standing and came straight towards us appear to be chasing them?

This is the only case that I can remember that anyone said the lights actually left Brown Mountain and came up to Wiseman’s View overlook or to any of the other overlooks on the Parkway or elsewhere. These people perhaps felt like they might have been chased, but they don’t seem sure.


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: nik347mhz on July 23, 2006, 01:08:28 PM

It's true that people perceive something on emotion many times and assume things about what they saw,

but I must address the issue about belief, in that it doesn't require evidence. If a guy said that to his wife I don't think the marriage would last long

ON another note, maybe the BML's are akin to the Northern and Southern Lights only 'different' and 'localized' .....thots for the day :):)


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: Charles on July 23, 2006, 06:25:45 PM


Quote:
I must address the issue about belief, in that it doesn't require evidence. If a guy said that to his wife I don't think the marriage would last long

Opinions and faith do not require evidence…until one decides to use them in an intellectual argument to convince another person of their validity or use them to prove another point.

Hypotheses presented as solutions to problems have to be tested by giving evidence. In science, hypotheses must be testable and falsifiable to be valid. There must be a way to collect data about it, and if must be possible to prove it is wrong if it really is wrong. So the hypothesis “We are surrounded by invisible aliens from another dimension, but we will never be able to detect them” is not testable and hence not falsifiable. We have worded it in such a way as to make testing impossible.


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: yonahmtn253 on July 24, 2006, 06:48:22 AM

Obviously you (Charles) do not believe it God either. Belief in something sometimes requires a "Leap of Faith. Believing in something untangible that you may not be able to touch, feel or explain. Science seems to be your driven motive and explaination for eveything. Seems a bit sad that our world has to always be explained in scentific terms. :-\


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: Charles on July 24, 2006, 02:03:33 PM


Quote:
Obviously you (Charles) do not believe it God either

Either you have missed the point of the discussion here, or you are trying to divert the debate to a new topic with this red herring non sequitur. There is nothing in my arguments on the issue that would enable you to conclude that I do not (or do) believe in God. We have not been debating the ‘science versus religion’ topic. While that has been discussed many times from many points of view on this board (I recommend that you read the past threads), it is not a useful platform for evaluating the BML as a plasma phenomenon. None the less, since you brought it up – it is possible that my view on the nature of God – the Prime Authority managing the Grand Scheme of the multiverse – is more complex than the traditional views espoused by most. And this is probably because my view of the nature of the multiverse is more complex than that of many others.

If, by your comment, you are trying to redirect the discussion to a debate of “which has better answers, science or religion?”, you are wasting your time. It is a meaningless question, comparable to “If God is really omnipotent, is it possible that he could create a rock so heavy that even he couldn’t lift it?” Those kinds of questions go nowhere.

Science and religion are both value systems, but they use completely different methods for validating their knowledge. Science uses the scientific method – observe a problem, ask a question, create a hypothesis as a possible answer, collect data to test the hypothesis, draw a conclusion about the truth of the hypothesis, add the facts to the knowledge base, repeat the process over with new hypotheses.

Religion validates its knowledge by faith. Religious faith does not require evidence, proof, or testing. One believes a religious doctrine because one chooses to believe it. One can believe it in spite of factual evidence that is directly contrary to that belief. That is what faith is all about – no questions asked, take it or leave it.

People who try to make science and religion battle each other to see which wins are in for a frustrating time of it. Science cannot prove or disprove the existence of God or any issues of faith in things of the supernatural. Secular humanists, be they atheists or agnostics, who use the bogus argument “science has found no evidence that God exists, so there must be no God” do not understand the scientific method. God may or may not exist, but neither science nor religion can prove it or disprove it. One takes one position on faith.

Likewise, religion cannot use its faith-based system to disprove scientific facts. Equally bogus is the Creationists’ argument “God wrote the Bible. The Bible is the ultimate truth. The Bible says nothing about dinosaurs, so there were never any dinosaurs. They are all fakes. Science has lied.”

The question of the BML still remains. Which is the most plausible hypothesis for the explanation ? The only testable one is one that says it is a natural phenomenon – perhaps electromagnetic plasma. They could be spirits, fairies, or sparks from the fingertips of God. One could believe those on faith, but they could never be proven true of false.


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: nik347mhz on July 24, 2006, 03:11:25 PM

Whether you believe in God or not is the least of my interests or for that matter the comparing of religion and science as value systems. I mearly put in the suggestion that the BML may be similar to the Northern and Southern lights in keeping with the topic


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: Charles on July 24, 2006, 06:40:34 PM


Quote:
Whether you believe in God or not is the least of my interests

My response was to the post prior to yours.

Quote:
I mearly put in the suggestion that the BML may be similar to the Northern and Southern lights

The auroras are produced by high-energy particles from the solar wind (mostly electrons) that are trapped in the Earth’s magnetosphere. These particles spiral back and forth along the magnetic field lines between the poles. When they impact the upper atmosphere, they cause the thin gas to fluoresce, giving off light. While the effects are electromagnetic, they are not quite the same phenomenon as the plasma effects that LEMUR produced in attempting to recreate the BML, which may be more like ball lightning.


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: parkviewlodge on August 14, 2006, 07:46:54 PM

Whoa! Kids!
I'm sorry I got all this started and then abandoned you all.
Charles ... what is up with you?
Is this LEMUR site a site for people to share there sightings and fillings and thoughts .... why are you attacking folks that are talking about how they see it and fill it. Why are you so angry about how yonahmtn fills about one of the mysterys of these mountains. This is a free site we all have a say!
But I am very curious..... why are you Angry about how we fill. Why are you taking our quotes and filling you need to say something about them.
Your not from around here are you! Have you ever been here at the Linville Gorge... 2nd to the Grand Canyon in depth? I didn't think so. If you were you wouldn't be so angry about the wonderful mystery right here in our back door. Us locals fill blessed to share in the mystery of the lights. Plasma, UFO's, Spirits it really doesn't matter. It is the Romance of something you can't explain. And today it can't be explained. Some say Plasma... some say UFO .... we all say mystery. An that is the way it is.

I am one of the people that has seen the LIGHTS. Up close and personal. And there are many of us.

I am NOT going to get in a 'dual of words' with you. You don't know us..... you don't know our mountains.....and you don't know about our folklore and history. And you don't have a clue about what we are talking about.

Yonahmtn email me ... we are doing a big experiment at Wisemans View Aug. 21 with the LEMUR guys and the MUFON guys. It involves hikers and walkie talkies and scientist from PA and fire. Dinner on my deck.

Cindy


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: Charles on August 15, 2006, 08:03:49 AM


Quote:
Is this LEMUR site a site for people to share there sightings and fillings and thoughts ....[/quote]
Yes, as well as for sharing information, facts, questions, different opinions, scientific knowledge, and alternate hypotheses…
[quote] …why are you attacking folks that are talking about how they see it and fill it. Why are you so angry… why are you Angry about how we fill… you wouldn't be so angry…[/quote]
Do you believe that anyone who expresses a different opinion or alternate theory from yours only does so motivated by anger ? If so, you must find discussion boards like this very hostile, frustrating places. But nothing that I have posted had any aspect of anger in it.
[quote]Why are you taking our quotes and filling you need to say something about them.[/quote]
That’s what people do who take part in discussion boards.
[quote]Your not from around here are you!…[/quote]
You mean only locals have the right to take part in the discussion on this board ? That’s exclusionary and contrary to the purpose expressed on the board intro isn’t it ?
[quote]…you don't know our mountains.....and you don't know about our folklore and history. And you don't have a clue about what we are talking about.

Then you obviously haven’t read all of my posts in the threads on this topic.


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: parkviewlodge on August 22, 2006, 07:44:34 PM

Hey Guys,

We had our outing last night at Wisemans View and Table Rock. It was so much fun and a huge success. We had 5 hikers climb Table Rock with various light forms. And I think there were 8 of us at Wisemans View. We all had walkie talkies.

We all started the evening here on my deck with dinner. We had a pretty interesting group. MUFON folks, LEMUR folks, Physicist from PA., and locals.

The weather reports were not so good. Thunder storms! And you really don't want hikers on Table Rock in the dark in a thunder storm. Our friend Rev. Don Cooper asked our hikers for a vote to continue the experiment. And all 5 said 'Its a go'. We had a beautiful weather night at Table Rock and at Wisemans View. Thank God!

What we discovered and keep in mind we are in full summer so there would be a lot of tree coverage. Most of this light experiment was done at the north tip of Table Rock where there is no tree coverage. We will need to reexperiment in the parking area after the fall.
1st is you can not see a lighter from either point with even binoculars.
2nd mag lights can only be seen with binoculars not naked eye.
3rd our big lantern lights are seen from either side very well.
4th you can't see any lights from the parking area at Table Rock.
5th nor can you see any lights from the sea to mtn trail. Which intersects with the Table Rock trail.
6th for most of the hike we had to ask the hikers to shine there lights at us. We could not see there lights unless they held there big lights over there heads at us. Which is interesting. We would have to radio the hikers to stop and signal us so we could map them on our map.
Now for the really fun stuff. I got a very excited call from Micah on table rock on the walkie talkie about the big red ball coming south on the river at us. Coming fast. And then another. We at Wisemans View couldn't see it because first we are watching our friends at Table Rock and second the straight drop off of the land doesn't give us a view of the Linville River north.

Now at this point we have our buddies on the north tip of Table Rock. And we are seeing a big light flashing on the south tip of Table Rock. They did not see that light but we did and after all our light testing. It was a big light. We know there were no other hikers on Table Rock .
And then we had a 3 Roman Candle show on top of the Chimneys. Big lights that shot straight up in the air and this was after our hikers headed back to us at Wisemans View.

We will probably repeat this experment after all our leaves are down. Just so we know where the lights are. Hikers and campers.

WE had a great evening ...even with all these different personalities. And different thoughts. It was a true bonding of different engeries. A mutual respect. And a true friendship.

Cindy


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: nik347mhz on September 5, 2006, 05:03:46 PM

It would be interesting to ride a hot air balloon right across the area on an active night. Any takers. I'd love to see them myself


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: parkviewlodge on September 6, 2006, 07:19:14 PM

Your right nik347. Would it not be amazing to be in a hot air ballon in the Linville Gorge with the lights giving us there show! It would be hard to arrange that happening.....but never say never!
We are planning another outing at Wisemans View this friday. And this week is the one year anniversary of some of the best LIGHTS I ever saw. And the weekend looks like the weather will be perfect. Wish us luck! And I will post you all about what we see.

Cindy


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: yonahmtn253 on September 7, 2006, 04:10:42 PM

Cindy and Lemur...PLEASE let us know what happens tomorrow!

I still stand firm that the BMLs are spirits! I have become interested in energy fields. I believe we all have energy field and they can be seen. Are they spirits? Well I think some spirits live on as energy. NOW, doesn't that make sense?!!!!


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: parkviewlodge on September 7, 2006, 07:07:32 PM

Yonahmtn it makes sense to me. The spirit idea has been my vote for sometime now. But I am open minded. Lets see what pans out.
Tomorrow night will be fun. Hanging out with Micah from Lemur and Reverend Cooper with Mufon. And of course local folks and a few cousins and even a few new friends I have met here on this site.
WE will go out to Wisemans View just before dark, and Just hang out. Some bring chairs, some of us sit up on the ledge of the balconey. Some on the steps. And we talk and we watch.
Everyone is gathered around telling stories. Funny stories and sad. But talking and listening and watching and waiting.

Cindy


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: parkviewlodge on September 10, 2006, 06:07:08 PM

Well we had a pretty interesting night friday at Wisemans View! The weather was an issue for some folks early on. But by the evening it was a beautiful full moon night. Not to cold. We had a great turn out. Maybe 15 that I knew. Hotel regular guests and locals.
We were not disappointed. As we arrived at maybe 8:15 there was a lot of lights on Table Rock. There was some light activity on Sitting Bear Mountain. Shorly there after a big light appeared on little Table Rock and stayed for the 2 1/2 hours we were there. After our experiment a couple weeks ago. Camper we thought. We also saw a lot of lights at the Chimneys on and off. We keep looking but always went back to watch the lights at Table Rock.
WE watched the big light with naked eye and binoculars... it seemed to be changing colors and dividing and spliting and then merging again. Hopping and skipping and then coming back together. After an hour of this a big light appeared at the Chimneys not white but red/ orange and stayed..... 45 minitues. (still shinning when we left at 11:10)
Now here is the interesting thing. One of our group had a camera with a big zoom. And you are not going to believe what we saw. These lights are at least 1 1/4 and 2 miles away from us at Wisemans. The digital camera shows what looks like a huge bon fire on top of the trees. In both locations. Pulsing ball of fire. Red, orange, blue, green, yellow.... but pulsing.

I know my friends here at Lemur are cheering.... plasma gas! And you know I had that thought too..... but guys how can we explain a 2 1/2 and a 45 minute light/ fire show to gas. How could a gas sustain itself for all those hours. Now just a reminder.... I walked away from these lights at 11:10 pm (busy morning here at the Lodge)
Heaven knows how much longer the lights did there thing.

And this is the beauty of what we are talking about here on the Lemur site...... it is all a mystery. Lots of different ideas. And just when you think you know what your looking at.... it changes. What an amazing mystery.... and I am blessed to be here .... right here. And check back with me in 20 years and I'm sure I will have a different thought about it. Maybe be a little closer to understanding the mystery of it all.

Cindy


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: yonahmtn253 on September 22, 2006, 06:28:21 AM

Has anyone noticed that this post has gotten the MOST views on this discussion board? I believe that reactions speaks loud and clear that some people do believe that the lights may be of a spiritual nature. I respect everyone's opinion on what it is I think it is much like faith, a personal thing.


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: Charles on September 23, 2006, 07:26:13 PM


Quote:
Has anyone noticed that this post has gotten the MOST views on this discussion board?

If you scroll back through the older posts on the Paranormal Discussion Board, you will notice that any controversial topic generated thousands of reads. Most people just like the excitement of believing unbelievable things.

Quote:
I believe that reactions speaks loud and clear that some people do believe that the lights may be of a spiritual nature.

I don’t doubt this. But one has to be careful about reading anything into these kinds of bandwagon opinions…beyond the fact that lots of people believe them.

For example, there are an estimated 15 million people in the U.S. who believe that the Holocaust never happened – that the whole story is just a hoax perpetrated by those desiring to vilify Hitler and discredit all the “wonderful things Hitler did to improve Germany and its economy”. A comparable number believe that man has never set foot on the Moon – the film was a PR hoax shot on a movie studio at Area 51. And the list of such beliefs grows longer every day. What meaning should we read into such beliefs ?

Quote:
I think it is much like faith, a personal thing.

Yes, that’s true. And like most issues of faith, it does not require proof or even supporting evidence – only the desire to believe. That’s how religion differs from science. And like other issues of faith, simply believing does not provide any evidence to support any other idea as being true. So believing that creation as described in Genesis is the literal truth does not logically allow one to deny the existence of dinosaurs in the fossil record and decry that they are hoaxes. Faith can’t wish away scientific facts.


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: yonahmtn253 on September 25, 2006, 05:49:52 AM

Charles,

What is your problem? You seem to just want to attack and degrade anyone's point of view. Have you got nothing better to do than to use this form of abuse?!!!

AND..oh please pull all my @#$@$# quotes out and attack them out of this post...I BEG YOU!!!


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: Charles on September 25, 2006, 05:58:02 PM

yonahmtn253 said:
Quote:
What is your problem?

It appears that you have the problem. For someone who voluntarily joined a discussion board devoted to debate on the meaning and origin of paranormal phenomena, you are overly defensive when it come to anyone expressing opinions or facts that are contrary to your views. Anger and hostility are defense mechanisms that suggest one does not have a logical argument in response to a contrary opinion.

What exactly was your point in your statement that some people believe that the BML have a spiritual nature ? What message were you trying to send us ? I did not disagree with your statement, but only qualified it to reflect what reasonable people know to be true – that even if a million or 15 million people believe something, it does not make their belief fact.

It’s puzzling why that observation would evoke anger from you…unless you would prefer that such clarification was not made at all to the other people reading the thread. But the Bandwagon argument – “if a million people believe it, then it must be true” – is one of the common logical fallacies in discussions of the paranormal. Sloppy thinking like that interferes with the quest for understanding about paranormal phenomena from those who are approaching the subject from the scientific perspective.


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: yonahmtn253 on September 26, 2006, 11:01:52 AM

I am not the angry or hostile one. You seem to be the one who is way off in left field causing people to get upset. Other people seem to carry on very friendly debates, conversations,etc on this board. You attack everyone with your scientific logic about everything.

I enjoy a good debate as well as the next person but you take things and turn them into something they are not.

I believe in the BMLs. I don't even think your bizarre answers and quotes even belong on this board.

Yes, Charles..you and I are finished debating! ::)


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: dscher on September 26, 2006, 02:38:03 PM

There have been times when I thought I sensed an intelligence in the lights, but that may be my own wishful thinking. I truely believe they are a natural phenomena. Something with which I find a lot of fascination and awe, just like many things in this world which are hard to explain but make you feel privileged to see and experience. Like watching the Aurora Borealis. We were traveling across Canada on a train when I was 15. We reached Winnepeg around 1:00 in the morning ( I think this was in June 1971) and my brother and I climbed up into a sight seeing car with a glass roof and watched the Northern Lights. We were mesmerized. He was 13 and full of knowledge about what it was and how the lights were formed. (Truely, he was and is very intelligent) I just thought they were beautiful. The BML remind me of that feeling every time I see them. We're going back in a few weeks. A cool night in the Fall is always the best time.


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: Charles on September 28, 2006, 06:12:08 PM

Have you got nothing better to do than to use this form of abuse?!!!

…please pull all my @#$@$# quotes out and attack them out of this post...I BEG YOU!!!

I am not the angry or hostile one.[/quote]
…could have fooled me…why… not a single smiley face to be seen anywhere
[quote]…you take things and turn them into something they are not.[/quote]
…what specifically are you referring to ?
[quote]I believe in the BMLs.[/quote]
Me too – I’ve seen them.
[quote]I don't even think your bizarre answers and quotes even belong on this board.[/quote]
So much for the theory that believers in the paranormal are open-minded. Wanting to ban opinions that you don’t agree with is a path to the truth you think ?

[size=0">dscher said
[quote]Something with which I find a lot of fascination and awe, just like many things in this world which are hard to explain but make you feel privileged to see and experience. Like watching the Aurora Borealis.

Yes. Even understanding the physics behind things does not diminish for me the awe-inspiring effects of things like the auroras or St. Elmo’s Fire glimmering around high voltage lines on a cold winter night or the amazing electromagnetic effects of the plasma spheres in the novelty stores or laser projected holograms floating in 3-D space. No matter how many times one sees a beam of white light entering a prism split into a spectrum of colors, the effect is still stunning. All of these things seem magical, which is why physics is such a great class to teach.

The world is filled with wonderful things that can stimulate a feeling of spiritual, mystical emotions, even if those things are not really spiritual or mystical or supernatural in nature. One need not assign a supernatural meaning to things to be inspired or moved by them. Nature itself is inspiring enough.


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: dscher on September 29, 2006, 02:26:58 PM

My sanctuary is the great outdoors and that is where I feel my Higher Power. To me there's nothing like standing on a mountain top after I've expended alot of energy getting there. Breathing FRESH air, watching eagles fly, watching the BML, standing on top of Table Rock whether it's in daylight or at night, looking at stars - these are all awe inspiring and have some spiritual recognition and thankfulness to God that I am a part of it all. I wish I could say I wake up every day and am glad to be here. Some days more than others. But for the most part, I'm just damn glad to be alive and able to think and feel.


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: nik347mhz on October 1, 2006, 03:09:13 PM

There are so many things in this world that are inconclusive as to whether or not they are supernatural or not and judging by the level of interest in the Lights and the diversity of people hyped about them, I would say that there is certainly something very interesting happening there. The number of people that said they felt they were 'followed' at times could be looked at and followed up on. It's a very big universe out there and with the amount of intelligence and creativity ascribed to humanity as well as accomplishments, I think it would be premature and narrow minded to assume that this plane of existance is all there is and that there is nothing else and that goes for the lights as well. Nope science can't go there because what they can't 'document' they won't acknowledge when it doesn't 'fit' into 'Their' model of the world and that's okay. We just keep investigating and we are the ones that discover. We are the ones that go the miles (Joshua does too :) and if Edison had listened to his assistant that thought it was insane to keep trying to make the light bulb work and to GIVE UP . . . the world would be in darkness. For every person that says it doesn't exist, there are 20 people discovering it. Keep investigating those lights. There is something very interesting about them and I wonder what we would get with a few serious evp sessions during a viewing . . . actually a Lot of evp sessions. Nik


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: Hopper on January 6, 2008, 09:23:48 PM

Here is a personal reality. With a thermal sensor and a powerful visible laser pointed at the light the light would move away in an instant. I wondered if someone north of my position was playing with a refracted light or if it were the BML.[quote author=yonahmtn253 link=board=2;threadid=1172;start=0#msg9497 date=1153440844]
I have no scientific evidence to prove anything. I guess I rely on my spiritual beliefs. The "Light" is something that lies in each of us whether we are religious or not. It is the soul and the heart. There is light in plants, rocks, etc. Do you not feel this plasma has some kind of life to it or do you think it is a scientific investigation? We all have our opinions and I respect yours as I hope you do mine! I am somewhat of a romantic who still wants to think it is a spirit, a past life, a living life that still exists in these Blue Ridge Mountains.

All I know is after all the different experiences that people have had with the BML on this Discussion Board, it is not to be dismissed as scientific plasma that has no life!
[/quote]


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Title: Parkview Lodge WRITE ME!!!
Post by: yonahmtn253 on January 10, 2008, 04:54:09 PM

Cindy at Parkview-

I am trying to email you and every email I have is wrong!
My email is trieva@windstream.net

THANKS!
Mary Ann


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: Scott on July 15, 2008, 05:32:22 PM

I have a personal belief that the Brown Mountain Lights are Spirits, though not in the traditional sense in which most people regard Spirits i.e. those Humans or Animals whom have died.

I believe that they are spirits in the sense that they are spirits of the land, both physical natural phenomenon dealing with the geology of the site that have an intelligence but only so much as in the specific purpose and or function with the land that these Spirits which are natural forces that have control and or watch over, possibly the local Gods of the Native Americans at some point if such mythologies exist sadly I can find no lore of such things.

There was one story of a man whom was said to have met an "energy being" that lived inside the mountain, this being could very well have been what some consider the spirits and or native Gods that take on and control the local environment and such plasmas on the mountain.

For some reason I am having a hard time recalling the mans name if any one knows who he is or if there is a link please point me to it.

It would be kindly appreciated!


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: yonahmtn253 on August 19, 2008, 05:06:49 PM

Hey Scott,

I like you assessment of the spirits. It makes sense that spirits reside in the geology of Brown Mountain. There is so much rock in the area an that mountain. I don't know the name of the man you are talking about but I think it is highly possible you have come to the most correct explaination of the lights. Do you think the geology holds a memory of past lives similar to fossils found?

maryann


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: yeastunleashedeast on December 9, 2008, 02:31:05 PM

I have seen them explode into the shape of a face much like a jack o lantern and hang there then dissappear. Also one exploded into the shape of a man walking, like a cave drawing, and hung there then dissappeared. The last time I went up there I watched, from the view, them flash as they followed a car along the gravel road.

Maybe this is my mind playing tricks on me, but my wife saw the same thing.

Spirits and ghosts are attracted to energy because they take it and use it to manifest into the physical world. Look at the evidence on "Ghost Hunters". What better place with so much proven energy?


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: wwuster on June 18, 2009, 11:45:07 AM

They are not spirits. They can be explained by physical science.

I doubt the existence of spirits.

They are still very interesting to me because I've seen them many times.

William


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Title: Re:Are the Lights Spirits?
Post by: tracyk859 on October 18, 2010, 02:51:44 AM

I believe when we see 'orbs'. that we are looking at the human soul and that it is a component of existance while living in this realm. I think there are More true orbs in our photos than dust particles.




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