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Print Page Official L.E.M.U.R. Discussion Board
    Paranormal => Speaking of Strange Discussion Board => Message started by: Joshua P. Warren - L.E.M.U.R. on July 31, 2007, 10:29:02 AM
	

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Title: Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: admin on July 31, 2007, 10:29:02 AM

This remarkable photo was taken by North Carolina paranormal investigator Richard Liebeck, in the Triangular Field, on the Gettysburg Battlefied, at the Ghost World Conference (July 20-22, 2007). Many Confederate soldiers were slaughtered on this property.

Liebeck used a KODAK DX7590 5mp with a Hoya R72 IR filter. Though he and his brother were alone, to their knowledge, when the photo was taken (during broad daylight), a humanoid figure, resembling a solider, appeared to the right of the frame when the IR filter was used.

It was taken on Sunday, July 22, at 5:10pm. They also measured strong magnetic surges around this time using a Tri-Field Natural EM Meter.

The image is currently undergoing analysis. Updates will be posted here as they become available.

For more on Richard's group, see:

www.BlueRidgeParanormal.com (http://www.BlueRidgeParanormal.com/)


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: grasshead on July 31, 2007, 12:42:16 PM

That looks like a man walking down a path to me, not a ghost.


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: Rebel Sinclair on July 31, 2007, 04:43:51 PM

:o I have no doubt at all that Gettysburg is completely haunted. Hopefully not a hoax - but even if it is, it doesn't change the fact that they're still wandering around out there. I think as our photography gets better and the end times keep marching closer we're going to see a lot more.


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: rmliebeck on July 31, 2007, 04:50:09 PM

I am the person who took the photo and there was absolutely no one there. We arrived at the Triangular Field at approximately 4:50pm and the photo was taken at 5:10pm. No one arrived on the battlefield other than us until about 5:30pm. No way to prove it but if you notice the analysis photos by Brian Irish, the head and legs seem to be thinner(almost transparent). I am not making any claims on what this is but there was absolutely no one there.


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: Seneedra on July 31, 2007, 04:57:23 PM

Absolutely amazing. I have been to Gettysburg once. I didn't know that it was haunted until I saw men walking way off and thought that it was someone looking for something in the grass. Found out that we were the only ones in that area and I was told later when I mentioned the men in the field that it was haunted and I probably witnessed a ghost. Great pic. Maybe I'll post my freaky pic and see what y'all say.


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: Truth Seeker on July 31, 2007, 07:39:16 PM

I have been investigating the paranormal for eleven years. I met Richard Liebeck in 2004 and have have investigated with him. The one thing that I can tell you about him is that he would never release evidence that he did not believe to be 100% authentic. Knowing what I do about the standards he holds, I say this is a Ghost.


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: easterntraveler on July 31, 2007, 08:24:11 PM

Josh,
Could you post the picture that was taken just before this one? You showed me one of another angle. I believe that there was a mist in that one.

-N


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: admin on July 31, 2007, 11:17:45 PM

When the photos were taken, Liebeck reports it was partly cloudy and around 85 degrees. Shortly before he captured the apparition, he took a regular photo without the IR filter around 4:57pm. That photo showed a strange hazy spot. Perhaps this hazy spot reflects the apparition's position, yet the distinct figure could only be seen once the filter was used. Here is that photo:



Here's a close-up of that hazy spot:



For a large, high-quality version of the pic, see:

http://shadowboxent.brinkster.net/images9/100_1178.JPG (http://shadowboxent.brinkster.net/images9/100_1178.JPG)


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: sacrownover on August 1, 2007, 03:47:59 AM

I began using digital infrared in 2006. In March of that year, I caught two apparitions at Devil's Den. The photo from the Triangular Field looks genuine provided that there were no people in frame. Since then, I have been successful at other locations. Another member of our group, Craig Rupp, took the best infrared photo I have ever seen when he was on Little Round Top earlier this year.
Brian Schill of the IPRF sent me a photo that one of his members took. It looks good as well.
A couple of our pictures are on our website www.ghostsrus.com
The Devil's Den photo is there. That photo was examined by a former forensic photographic analyst for the F.B.I. and was deemed genuine. Craig's will be posted soon.
I am very glad to see that groups other than the Ghost Research Foundation are using digital infrared and getting results.
Scott Crownover, co-founder GRF


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: e_pete_2007 on August 1, 2007, 03:31:03 PM

the photo taken by R. L. on his trip was sent to me by another team member of his and I want the readers of this post to know that I did everything I could to it to break it down to determine whether I could find any tampering with the photo. I used several different software applications in this process with high magnification and I could not debunck the picture. Usually, if it is tampered with you can get to a point where you can find a point that the image no longer matches exactly to the background pixels. As far as I am able to say it is my belief that the image captured is legit. One of the things that I really appreciated about the picture posted was of the one he took just prior shot in normal lighting which still clearly shows the outline of some form. It is congruent with the filtered photo and seems to represent the same shape. I find these photo submissions to be good evidence for the furthering the claims of paranormal activity. Thanks for reading.


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: Donastices on August 1, 2007, 06:06:46 PM

Considering the path that is obvious in the photo, it certainly is just as obvious that the "ghost" is something, probably a human, simply walking the path. If it photographs, it must have mass to reflect the light. This would make it "of this world" as most do not consider ghosts to have mass. However, as the laws of physics/matter operate, there is no evidence that any kind of energy-matter function represents an actual ghost, according to the most accepted definitions of ghost. The photo begs closer examination (higher resolution) in order to determine exactly what it is. I'm not trying to be supercritical or tear down believers. I just want to be very sure that what is there is a real paranormal phenomenon, after we absolutely rule out laws of matter and energy, natural local phenomena, etc.

Donastices


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: admin on August 2, 2007, 12:00:31 AM

Hi Donastices,

Thanks for your thoughts on this image.

When an apparition manifests in a form that can be captured by a camera, it seems to do so in the plasma state--the fourth state of matter. I say that given characteristics of "ghosts" that often match plasma characteristics, as described in some of my books (like How to Hunt Ghosts). To my understanding, plasmas do not possess mass in the classic sense, but are able to both produce and reflect light, as demonstrated in ball lightning-type manifestations as well as L.E.M.U.R.'s Brown Mountain experiments detailed at www.BrownMountainLights.com (http://www.BrownMountainLights.com). Altogether, if this is a plasma manifestation, visible in the IR realm, it could reflect/produce light without mass. The principle of reflection depends on how the light waves from the camera lens interact with light waves emanating from the subject.

In his analysis, Brian Irish noted the form produced no apparent shadow. I have never seen what I feel to be a legitimate ghost photo candidate with a shadow. This may be a telling component, implying the forms do not necessarily block light but produce their own.

Paranormal-Investigation.com (http://Paranormal-Investigation.com) enhanced and analyzed the anomaly. They were surprised by the details that could be extracted and feel a soldier carrying a gun, across his left shoulder, can be discerned:





Yesterday I interviewed Dr. Bill Forstchen, one of the world's top experts on the Civil War, regarding this photo. He said the apparent figure matches the garb of a soldier at the time, at the location, under the circumstances. Soon I plan to post the audio with his actual words. This can assure the relevance and accuracy of the historical context.


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: admin on August 2, 2007, 04:16:41 PM

On August 1, 2007, while hosting Take A Stand on News Radio 570 WWNC, I interviewed Dr. William R. Forstchen (he was live in the studio) regarding this photo. It was between 3 and 4pm.

Dr. Forstchen is a history professor, Civil War expert, and NY Times Best-selling author. He has spent a great deal of time at Gettysburg. You can learn more about him at: www.Forstchen.com (http://www.Forstchen.com)

Here is a 1 min. 22 sec. clip of Dr. Forstchen's comments on the historical integrity of the apparition:

http://shadowboxent.brinkster.net/ForstchenAnalysisLiebeckPhotoAug12007.mp3 (http://shadowboxent.brinkster.net/ForstchenAnalysisLiebeckPhotoAug12007.mp3)


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: Donastices on August 2, 2007, 05:09:07 PM

Hello. It's Donastices again and I'm going to comment on plasma state as an explanation for ghosts. The plasma state either exists outside of earth in the magnetosphere, or on earth as produced in labs. It needs an external (incredible heat-as in stars- or electrical stimulus) energy boost to cause its ions to heat up and release light. Even then there would be nothing emitted like a specific and recognizeable image. From what source would a ghost derive such incredible heat and energy in order to produce an image out of plasma? Plasma states, unless continually stimulated by outside energy, rapidly produce enough heat through ion collisions that they dissipate in the blink of an eye. Probably too rapidly to even be seen or photographed. Ball lightning and similar phenomena are not proven to be in the plasma state. Lab experiments, however, have produced them, especially in the presence of electrical stimuli (e.g. lightning discharges) or metals that, when agitated (storm around an airplane, for example) produce mists of electrically charged particles that may adhere through gravity in a globular shape. These may last for several seconds until the inter-ion attractions break down. Considering this kind of behavior, I don't believe that one should try to explain ghosts by attempting to rationalize their behavior via a fourth state of matter when the earth bound three states can't do it. And, again, I'm not arguing for its own sake, but only attempting to find something "outside" natural processes. I'm grateful for comments; we all learn from these. Because I'm new to chat rooms, etc., I find it often difficult to interpret the numerous messages, computer language, etc. Who answered me with the "plasma ghost" hypothesis? I didn't find a name.

Donastices


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: Charles on August 2, 2007, 05:47:43 PM


Quote:
I don't believe that one should try to explain ghosts by attempting to rationalize their behavior via a fourth state of matter when the earth bound three states can't do it.

Welcome to the board Donastices. And thanks for your cogent clarification of the physics here - you beat me to it. This and related topics about the nature and behavior of ghosts have been around the track many times over the four years that I’ve been here. It is frequently the case that when looking for an explanation for these 'ghostly'images, some try to conjure up explanations using some of the more esoteric concepts (at least to the general public) like plasmas or EM-fields or antimatter... the general idea being that so few people understand the science behind the concepts that they will buy it.

It's just a fact of human nature that most people are eager to believe unbelievable things. So the world of paranormal phenomena is filled with passionate believers who look for things to cling to to support their 'faith'. Rational skepticism that throws cold water on theories is not always kindly accepted. Occam's Razor is a dirty word for some. The faithful who want to believe have little patience with questions like 'If ghosts are so ethereal that can walk through walls, how are they able to walk across a floor and down stairs?"

The plasma theory was presented by one of the board administrators from LEMUR, probably Josh Warren.


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: rmliebeck on August 2, 2007, 05:59:28 PM

The author of the plasma hyposthesis was Joshua Warren. President of LEMUR. I understand the criticism of this photo because extreme claims require extreme evidence. And I know there is no way to prove to anyone that there was not a person on that path. I am the person who took the photo and there were only two people on that battlefield when the photo was taken: Myself and my brother who was about 2 feet away from me as I took the photo. I am not claiming this is a ghost. I am putting it out there for opinions from other people. My question to you is this, If I am telling the truth and there was nobody on that path. What caused the image? My brother Randy Liebeck is one of the most respected paranormal investigators in the world. He has had cases refered to him from Loyd Auerbach and other big name investigators. He has investigated haunted locations all over the United States & England. He has worked on several television shows and other media outlets. This is his passion and he regularly admits he has never captured any pictures or video of a ghostly nature. If I had faked this photo or if I were to mis-represent anything that I present, he would probably never speak to me again. He has been doing this since the 1980's and he knows to observe any other people in the area and to note when they arrive and leave. This photo was taken under controlled conditions and there was NO ONE on that path. Thank you again for your comments and like I said before, I am not calling this a ghost but I am calling this something that was not visable as I looked through the viewfinder


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: rmliebeck on August 2, 2007, 06:13:22 PM

Sorry about the typo---hypothesis


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: Donastices on August 2, 2007, 06:45:56 PM

Hello, Mr. Liebeck:
Yes, I believe you. And I hope that you will have many similar photos so that we can gain more info on what peculiar causes are out there, natural or super-
natural. Thank you for responding so sincerely.

Donastices


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: Donastices on August 2, 2007, 06:53:56 PM

To Charles:

Thanks for your excellent comments on belief systems. Let's all keep examining our world with critical yet acceptant eyes, for all the differences, mysteries, and explanations it offers.

Donastices


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: admin on August 3, 2007, 12:19:29 AM


Quote:
The plasma state either exists outside of earth in the magnetosphere, or on earth as produced in labs.

Donastices,

Majority of the known universe exists in a state of plasma. But right here on earth, manifestations as common as a candle flame or a lightning bolt are plasmas.

As you correctly stated, ball lightning has been recreated in labs, and it exists in the plasma state. The reason it is called "ball lightning" is because it is a form of lightning--a plasma.

We do not know what creates an apparition, or allows it to be observed. It is a mystery. But as I stated before, after nearly two decades of published research, I can say conclusively that many of the plasma characteristics are common with those associated with "ghosts." The earth itself is a huge electrodynamic machine, and the source of power may emanate from the planet itself, especially under certain environmental conditions. Liebeck reported anomalous magnetic surges around the time the apparition was captured.


Quote:
So the world of paranormal phenomena is filled with passionate believers who look for things to cling to to support their 'faith'. Rational skepticism that throws cold water on theories is not always kindly accepted. Occam's Razor is a dirty word for some. The faithful who want to believe have little patience with questions like 'If ghosts are so ethereal that can walk through walls, how are they able to walk across a floor and down stairs?"


Charles,

Considering we're talking about the plasma theory (first addressed in this thread by me), your statement regarding Occam's Razor seems to imply I have not employed this principle. In fact, I have written extensively about the concept and advise any serious researcher to adhere to this timeless facet. By saying "the general idea being that so few people understand the science behind the concepts that they will buy it," you have expressed a condescending view that warps honest analysis of the available data. Being an open board for all, there are indeed some who do not understand plasma physics. But there are others who do, and to undermine that element with such an arrogant statement is not becoming of you, given your input in the past.

Richard Liebeck, and his brother Randy, are the only people who can say, with 100 percent certainty, that no person (dressed in period garb) was standing in the field and/or that this photo was not hoaxed. But I have met (and corresponded for quite a while) with Richard and his brother. If we are to give them the benefit of the doubt, and presume the photo is presented according to their honest claims, then we must deal with a true anomaly.

My efforts to form opinions based on those grounds are documented. Aside from taking a snide, and apparently pre-determined, approach to this data, can you offer any truly skeptical explanations for what we may see in this photo? I value your approach when open-minded, and hope you will assist us with your scientific experience.

Whatever the case, since you, Charles, are in agreement with Donastices, I hope you will please do thorough research regarding plasmas, as you both concur on clear misunderstandings of fundamental plasma characteristics (regardless of whether or not we are analyzing a plasma-related phenomenon).

Randy Liebeck and Brian Irish will be on my radio program, SPEAKING OF STRANGE, this Saturday night (August 4) at 8pm ET. I invite you both to call the show and ask questions or make comments: (800) 570-9962 and www.SpeakingOfStrange.com (http://www.SpeakingOfStrange.com)

In answer to your question, Charles: Most ghosts seem to be imprints: non-conscious, non-interactive, elements of the past. Your reference to physical structures, such as walls and floors, suggest the ghost is actually restrained by present physical structures. An apparition may be no more restrained than a radio wave; an image from the past (perhaps like light from a projected film) that replays within a certain block of space-time. The environment may act as a large recording medium, but as Einstein said: "If we knew what we were dealing with, we wouldn't call it research."


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: Donastices on August 3, 2007, 08:09:45 AM

Mr. Warren:
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. It appears that we (along with many researchers) are going to disagree on what the plasma state actually is, and what phenomena exemplify it. So, I'd like to turn briefly to another angle in connection with it. Let's assume that ghosts are plasma manifestations. How can/does any energy source activate a deceased person (or even pets that are frequently reported as ghosts) to reappear in a plasma state? And often possess/replicate human characteristics such as voice recordings, dress, behavior, etc?

Donastices


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: admin on August 3, 2007, 04:16:23 PM

Hi Donastices,

Having worked in the broadcast industry for many years, I often hear about broadcasts being received that were originally made decades before. Apparently, these electromagnetic signatures are still "bouncing around" within the ionosphere, somehow retaining enough original properties to carry pieces of an organized signal. Granted, these are all anecdotal, and I doubt a serious study has ever been done. However, if this phenomenon exists, as loosely described, I wonder if something similar could occur with any electromagnetic signal, including the strong ones produced, and reflected by, our bodies.

We don't fully understand the nature of time. However, we know it is a flexible thing, and that the specious present is a fluid illusion, beyond true definition. If incidents from the past are layered behind the specious present, then we may be able to glimpse it, or record it, when those layers are disturbed by anything from a solar flare to a geomagnetic pulse (hence EMF meter anomalies, though we can't determine cause and effect). As analogy: the lines of force emanating from a magnet are invisible. However, when the magnet is placed below a paper covered in iron filings, we suddenly have a crude visualization--a physical representation of the non-physical force. It might be that buried time layers are usually invisible and non-physical. But when additional energy is supplied, photons and/or ions reflect from those time layers, giving us a temporary, translucent partial image--the so-called apparition.

Keep in mind that a "soul" or "spirit," however defined, is not necessary to create a ghost. We have ghosts of inanimate objects like ships and cars; stagecoaches and the horses pulling them. While some phantoms may indeed by conscious, interactive, aware individuals (based on eyewitness testimony), many of them clearly are not. They are truly imprints from the past, and we don't understand how they are stored or retrieved. But it seems mother nature may have a grand way of recording and replaying information on a vast, complex scale, similar to what we can easily do with our most basic technologies.

This is all speculation, of course. I don't pretend to know all the answers. If I did, ghosts would no longer be mysterious or paranormal. But I could write on this subject forever. And, having written books about all this, I fear I may write another here if I don't stop now. ;)


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: admin on August 3, 2007, 04:24:58 PM

I have posted a new opinion poll regarding the Liebeck photo.

Please participate at:

http://users.boardnation.com/~shadowboxent/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=1558 (http://users.boardnation.com/~shadowboxent/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=1558)


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: Charles on August 3, 2007, 08:51:00 PM

Josh,

I apologize if my comments appeared condescending or insensitive. That was not my intention. I have spent the past six months in classes being trained to teach in an online, virtual high school environment in which all instruction and communication is by email and chat room. With words at a premium in the virtual classroom, communication must be direct and unambiguous. You may have misinterpreted that straightforwardness in my message as an attempt to stifle debate. You know better.

In principle, you abandoned Occam’s Razor when you chose to use the word “Ghost” in the title of your post. Even recognizing the concession to euphemism embodied in the use of “quotes”, your use of the word itself was presumptive and prematurely judgmental. With that word, you prejudicially imprinted a desired conclusion on the minds of the readers, suggesting that the determination of its nature had already been made. Even the photographer was not willing to declare the phenomenon to be a ghost.

You could have avoided that misstep by using a scientifically objective description such as “photographic anomaly” instead of “ghost”. Your target audience would not have been as passionately stirred by that expression, but it would have been a more accurate assessment of what was and is known about the phenomenon. Some non-objective web sites with conjectural bias might have described the anomaly as a photo of an angel or of a demon or a cloaked alien or even as an image of Christ returning. None of those would be any less accurate than describing it as a ghost.

Regarding plasma, it takes various forms. But they are all forms of ionized gas. It might be super-hot like the million-degree form in a star. It could be an electrical discharge like lightning or Saint Elmo’s fire or the Brown Mountain Lights, if your experiments on that are correct. But regardless of the form, there is no scientifically defensible justification for linking plasmas to ghosts. In fact, there is no data to even defend the existence of ghosts as real phenomena, either as the un-transitioned souls of the dead (the overwhelmingly popular belief) or as transitory spectral images bleeding through during collisions of parallel membranes in the multiverse (a more modern hypothesis from M-theory). All evidence of ghosts is speculative and anecdotal. That does not mean ghosts do not exist. It means we don’t know one way or the other. Belief in their existence is a matter of faith, like the existence God.

For what it’s worth, plasma does not make up the majority of our universe. That honor has recently been awarded to something named “dark matter”, for want of a better name. Based upon measurements of the expansion of our universe, it makes up 99% of the universe. It is invisible and undetectable. We know nothing about it except its influence upon the rate of expansion of our universe. We may never know what it is.

As far as the “imprint” theory of ghosts, we have been over that before. Until someone can provide evidence of exactly “what” is imprinted on “what”, that whole hypothesis is a specious red herring. There is no known form of energy that “imprints” anything on the fabric of space. The closest we can get is the fact that matter warps space to produce a 4th dimensional dimple to generate what we perceive as a gravitational force (if one accepts General Relativity). But that might also be only a convenient analogy if M-theory and Supergravity is correct.

And contrary to the urban legends, there are no radio broadcasts bouncing around from the past or the future being detected today. It makes a good movie plot, but bad science. Steer clear of bad science. She is a deceitful mistress.

As far as the anomaly on the film, it might be hard to ever know what it is, if anything at all. It was a transitory event. We can speculate. It could be an optical artifact associated with the lens, the camera, the electronics, or the atmosphere. In situations like this, we can’t trust our eyes (consider mirages) or our brains (good old reliable pareidolia) or our equipment (optical aberrations, digital hiccups). But Parsimony says “ghost” is one of the least plausible hypotheses, considering that we would first have to assume that ghosts really exist. If I had to bet, I would put my money on an optical phenomenon associated with convective heating or atmospheric phenomena.

I have not yet read your new assessment. I shall.


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: Donastices on August 4, 2007, 09:16:02 AM

Charles:
I read with great interest your comments on the recent phenomena being discussed by yourself, J.W. and me. In your latest comments to J.W. you mentioned "M theory." Do you have time to send me a brief clarification on this? Thanks.

Donastices


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: Donastices on August 4, 2007, 09:41:27 AM

Mr. Warren:
I am enjoying your discussions with Charles, and I do appreciate your responding to me so completely with answers to my questions. I hope you won't mind another. I do have to question much of the material in your most recent response, but wish to continue inquiring and seeking advice and opinions. I get the impression from my own experiences and research, that ghost sightings are very common ... by others. I have visited numerous allegededly haunted sites and never had a supernatural experience. The frequency with which these phenomena are reported would seem to indicate that conditions are continually right for the expression of some kind of ghost. (Personal anecdotes, books listing sites, television reports, etc.). Yet the nature of the physical conditions causing ghosts, that you indicated in your response, suggest that such sightings would be most infrequent. Is there some sort of location technique, source, master listing which would result in locating these sites (especially in my home state (Indiana) or contiguous states, where I would be LIKELY to encounter a paranormal phenomenon? Frankly, I'm getting tired of "running out" to investigate and finding nothing. Or do I have to go to English castles? Thanks again.

Donastices


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: Joe on August 5, 2007, 03:21:38 AM

Donastices-

Welcome. Your comments regarding non-experiences in allegedly haunted locations tends to support Dr. Andrew Nichols theories on ghostly phenomena. He believes that "ghosts" are mostly subjective experiences created by the mind psychically. Some people experience things regularly and some not at all. That's the jist of it; he has many ideas about supernatural phenomena (crisis apparitions, precognition, place memory, etc.). His book, Ghost Detective, has several interesting cases cited.

I feel it would be worth your while to look into his research. His ideas aren't very popular among many paranormal enthusiasts, but it is refreshing to get a different viewpoint. Something to ponder.

-Joe


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: Donastices on August 5, 2007, 10:53:23 AM

Joe:
Thanks for your response to my most recent posting to J. Warren. You did satisfy my inquiry to some extent. (The reason why I'm not finding anything on "hunts" is because my mind isn't conjuring up images). I'll try to locate the research you mentioned, but I've already found a mass of similar material in Psychological Abstracts. However, I'm still open to investigating and how others think. Some in a local group of paranormal enthusiasts believe strongly in ouija board activity and "residual" energy as indicative of the existence of ghosts. As I have no confidence in these concepts, I need a "haunted" site that is regular enough in producing phenomena to the extent that I can question my own nature in failing to perceive any.

Donastices


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: Charles on August 6, 2007, 03:32:07 AM


Quote:
...you mentioned "M theory." Do you have time to send me a brief clarification on this?

You may have already found this description of The Elegant Universe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-theory)


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: Donastices on August 6, 2007, 10:31:25 AM

Charles:
Thanks so much for those sources. I read the Wikipedia source and, when I have time, I'll go over the others, the mini-videos on string theories and related topics. As it stands, I see room for many to attempt to relate ghost occurrences to the various dimensions and matter configurations of these developing theories. But, I'd trust explanations of apparitions vs. M and string theories only if they came from those (academic and theoretical physicists) who really study the physical world and its limits.

Donastices


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: rmliebeck on August 6, 2007, 08:34:01 PM

I don’t know if this will add any validity to this photo but if you’ll notice in the mist photo that the Sun seems to be setting to the left. If you look at the tree line, you’ll see the shadow going from left to right. Now if you look at the soldier photo, you can also see the shadow. Now if you notice the soldier has no apparent shadow.


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: Joseph000 on August 6, 2007, 09:22:47 PM

[quote]Some comments I made about this photo on another site.

Quote:
Now why would a ghost travel along the same path that probably was not there 150 years ago ? Maybe it was a hiker afterall.

Statement: I was too hot to wear long pants etc.
Reply:

Quote:
Maybe the reason this person was dressed the way they were was too keep ticks off of them and avoid other biting bugs.

Claim made: nobody was there
Reply:

Quote:
Maybe your friends memory is faulty and there was somebody walking down the path.

Claim. It's a Ghost
Yes, it could be a ghost, a space alien or a time traveler, or one of the Three Stooges, it's impossible to come to any conclusion with one apparently bad quality photo. Predisposing a conclusion is a parochial path no one should walk.[/quote]


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: mister_mobius on August 7, 2007, 12:09:26 AM

JPW mentioned odd radio waves picked up with no logical explanation as a description of an energy manifeatation that did not have a rational explanation. I suggest anyone who is interested look at this further and do some google time on long delay echos or LDEs. The stories from hams, commercial radio and TV are just amazing and is no possible explanation for the activity that holds any logic. Sometimes happening 50 years late. Art Bell broadcast an event where a carrier was retrurning to a ham sender who even was sliding frequency after 20 secs with almost no loss to his total amazment. In another example was after several mins. There is no logical explanation for where this energy could have gone traveling at the speed of light and come back with the levels intact and were only received by the senders in most instances. Many times Hams living miles away were unable to pick up the transmissions. This has been observed since the start of radio broadcasting and remains a mystery. In Texas a TV station off the air for 51 years was once picked up and a full nights broadcast was recorded at a persons home. There are no logical explanations for such as this.




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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: mister_mobius on August 7, 2007, 12:13:15 AM

In a room where the ParanormalPC was left where activity had been witnessed.... with no ventalation the PC recorded a EMF event and a drop in the rooms temp almost instantly of 14 degrees while the activity was occuring. This would seem to suggest the stories of a room suddenly getting cold when a ghost is manifesting have validity.

I have so far seen no logical explanations for even how ball lightening holds its form and has been seen to stay intact in rare instances for as long as 3 mins. The source of the energy that sustains this is less then obvious.


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: Charles on August 7, 2007, 06:32:13 AM


Quote:
JPW mentioned odd radio waves picked up with no logical explanation as a description of an energy manifeatation that did not have a rational explanation. I suggest anyone who is interested look at this further and do some google time on long delay echos or LDEs. The stories from hams, commercial radio and TV are just amazing and is no possible explanation for the activity that holds any logic….Many times Hams living miles away were unable to pick up the transmissions.

HAM radio operates primarily by the reflection of the waves off the ionosphere rather than line-of-sight. At the 5 MHz frequency of those waves, that layer is very reflective, and the waves bounce like light off a mirror, sometimes for thousands of miles. It is possible that the waves could make several reflections. But the chance of a signal bouncing around for hours or days is virtually zero. The energy is dissipated with every bounce, since not all of the wave is reflected – some leaks through. That’s why you can’t trap light in a mirrored box. For AM, FM, and TV waves, the ionosphere is more disruptive than reflective, though one layer does reflect some FM frequencies. But again, the signal would not hang around long.

Quote:
In Texas a TV station off the air for 51 years was once picked up and a full nights broadcast was recorded at a persons home.

I am very suspicious of this story. It has an aroma of urban legend. Who validated the authenticity of this claim? Or do we just take the word of the “person” who had the recording?


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: Joseph000 on August 7, 2007, 08:03:33 AM


on 1186470795, mister_mobius wrote:

I have so far seen no logical explanations for even how ball lightening holds its form and has been seen to stay intact in rare instances for as long as 3 mins. The source of the energy that sustains this is less then obvious.


and another
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s520317.htm (http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s520317.htm)


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: KC on August 7, 2007, 01:44:59 PM

I think this photo is amazing! Keep up the great work everyone! If you are ever in Las Vegas...you should visit Bally's hotel...I work the Jubilee! show here. This hotel was originally the MGM which had a tragic fire around 25 years ago. There are spirits around. I hope to someday get equipment to prove it. However those of us who have experienced don't need proof.


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: Charles on August 7, 2007, 07:15:13 PM


Quote:
There are spirits around. I hope to someday get equipment to prove it.

People have been saying this for over one hundred years. But no one has had any luck yet. Why is that ?


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: Joe on August 8, 2007, 02:11:42 AM

[quote author=Donastices link=board=3;threadid=1554;start=20#msg10876 date=1186336403]
(The reason why I'm not finding anything on "hunts" is because my mind isn't conjuring up images) [/quote]

Not in a way that you are imagining it. He believes that some of these images are objectively seen by others as well, but rather than being spirits, they are manifestations of one's own mind or a view of what is know as "place memory" (commonly refered to as a residual haunting). Some people are more sensitive/in-tune/psychic than others and have more experiences. If you have the opportunity to hear him speak, then please do so.


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: mister_mobius on August 8, 2007, 03:32:15 AM

TV's Biggest Mystery
Texas Station Signal Seen in England -- Three Years After It Went Off the Air!
This article appeared in TV Guide, apparently the issue of April 30-May 6, 1955.
Is there an intelligence somewhere in outer space which is beaming TV signals at the earth?

Or can television signals from Texas wander around the ionosphere for more than three years and then be picked up in England?

These are two of the questions with which engineers are wrestling in Houston, Tex., and in Britain as they delve into the mystery of KLEE-TV. And these are the facts.

1. At 3:30 PM, British Summer Time, September 14, 1954, Charles W. Bratley, of London picked up the call letters KLEE-TV on his television set. Later that month, and several times since, they have been seen by engineers at Atlantic Electronics, Ltd., Lancaster, England.

2. The call letters KLEE-TV have not been transmitted since July 1950, when the Houston station changed it letters to KPRC-TV.

3. A check of the world's television stations confirms the fact that there is not now and never has been another KLEE-TV.

Paul Huhndorff, chief engineer of KPRC-TV, to whom the Britishers sent their report, has no explanation. He contends it is not unusual for signals to be received hundreds or even thousands of miles from the transmitter. KPRC-TV [and the old KLEE-TV] has been picked up at Halifax, Nova Scotia, 2000 miles away.

Such freak reception occurs when signals shoot off into space, strike an atmospheric layer known as the ionosphere, and rebound to earth. However, the reception of such pictures has been as nearly instantaneous as electronics permit. A time lapse of 30 seconds would be a cause for wonder.

Members of the old KLEE-TV staff have identified pictures of the signals as looking like the standard call-letter slide they used. Engineer Huhndorff, waiting for more information from England, reserves final opinion. Meanwhile, he offers three theories.

1. The whole business is a hoax perpetuated by some amateur TV operator. This he discounts on the grounds of his fellow engineers' integrity.

2. The signals may have rebounded from a celestial object a light year and a half away. This would be a mathematical miracle if it happened once. Several times is just too fantastic for belief.

3. Some intelligence in outer space has received the signal and has re-transmitted it in the hope of communicating with this planet.

Those are the theories. We suggest the readers take their pick or invent their own.

-------------------------------

Maybe myth... but i can google and find a lot of solid reports from hams of LDEs that go up to 15 mins.


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: lemur on August 8, 2007, 07:24:34 AM

Warren will speak on battlefied ghosts (and more) at this conference next month in Fredericksburg, VA:

http://users.boardnation.com/~shadowboxent/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=1568 (http://users.boardnation.com/~shadowboxent/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=1568)


Also, this Snopes article explains the urban legend regarding the particular case of the Texas broadcast picked up in Europe:

http://www.snopes.com/radiotv/tv/klee.asp (http://www.snopes.com/radiotv/tv/klee.asp)


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: dscher on August 19, 2007, 05:52:03 AM

Josh, Charles - Just read this thread all the way through and found it very interesting. Can I assume the apparition I saw in that house in Raleigh was an imprint of some kind and I was "psychically" in tuned to it, as suggested by NC More a couple of years ago? I have felt that I was not ready and still to this day almost 30 years later am not ready to understand why I saw what I saw. The figure in this photo is fascinating. Josh, is LEMUR going to hold any more forums at the Grove Park in the furture? Dottie


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: trying2raise3 on October 12, 2007, 02:27:46 PM

Incredible pics! Thanks for posting them!


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: figment on November 17, 2007, 11:53:45 PM

These pictures are great. Although on one of them i am a little skeptical about, looks like a refection, or a trick of the sun to me, Looks more like a natural in the on of the of the tree just my thoughts tho


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: marymoore33 on May 28, 2008, 10:46:21 PM

This looks like my 70 year old mother in 2001


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: jdramzer on May 28, 2008, 10:55:16 PM

A number of years ago my sister and I went to Gettysburg and we stopped at a famous battleground. I do not remember the name of the field, but I do remember feeling an extreme amount of fear and hostility in the air. I felt as though I was experiencing the terror of a young soldier(s) in battle. I insisted we leave the grounds and, as soon as we left the area, the feelings dissipated. I have never felt those feelings again. I have always wondered if maybe I imagined it all, but seeing this picture makes me believe that it quite possibly was not imagined.


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: grunyin on May 29, 2008, 03:45:29 AM

I just have a few questions about the photo. Has the path the supposed soldier is traveling down been around since the civil war? If the path hasn't been around that long then why would a civil war ghost travel down it? Wouldn't a ghost from that era be more likely to travel familiar ground? Possibly even the open field? Why did the photographer choose to take these photos in the first place? Are these the only two photos of the time frame 4:50 to 5:10? If the photographer arrived at 4:50 it probably took a few minutes to set up for the shots, at what time did he begin shooting? Did the photographer shoot any photos after 5:10, and before 5:30? What was the weather like? The one picture appears very sunny, while the soldier photo appears very cloudy, why do ghosts prefer cloudy days? Are there more photos with the IR lens of that day? Why are the two photos taken from different angles? If we are to compare photos wouldn't it be helpful to compare photos from the same angle? Why is the photographer unwilling to claim that the photo is of a ghost, while at the same time claiming that there was no one else there? Does the photographer have an explanation that doesn't involve the term ghost? Is it possible, being that this was a gathering about ghosts, and the civil war, that someone at the gathering is responsible for the image we see in the photo, and the photographer just didn't notice them?


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: marilew on May 29, 2008, 07:40:35 AM

I have also read this board in its entirety. I have had personal experience with Paranormal, and truly wonder why so many people try so hard to discredit such. I do not need any one to prove or disprove events, pictures ,sightings etc. to me because I believe. It don't call it "faith" in the paranormal...just that in my experiences and belief it "is".
Personally, had I been the photographer I would not spend so much time trying to defend my picture. The one that was there...took the pictures et al, KNOWS what they saw or didn't see, what showed in the pictures, and that to me...is all that matters.
No one can make a person change their stand on a belief. I think that a person that has not had any "experience with the paranormal (or whatever label you want to put on it)" will NEVER believe in it until such a time as (in my opinion) they are fortunate enough to be faced with it themselves.
Personally...I am very glad to have had the experiences that I have and don't need anyone to tell me whether they are true or not!
Thanks


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: FinelyTuned on May 29, 2008, 09:57:04 AM

I love what these images can do to one's imagination. Hi everyone. :)


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: Galknowing on May 30, 2008, 01:44:07 PM

For more on Richard's group, see:

http://www.BlueRidgeParanormalInvestigations.com/ (http://www.BlueRidgeParanormalInvestigations.com/)

This link takes me to GODADDY and stops there. Does anyone know what is up with this GoDaddy thing by any chance?


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: ambersirina on June 1, 2008, 03:40:31 PM

How do you post pictures directly on the board?


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: Galknowing on June 2, 2008, 07:31:39 PM

Amber,

You upload a picture from your computer in the PROFILE section. It is easy to do and prompts you on what to do next. Just go to PROFILE up ^ there on the first tool bar where it says HOME, ?HELP, SEARCH, PROFILE, NOTIFICATIONS and LOGOUT!

I hope this helps.


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: ambersirina on June 2, 2008, 08:56:36 PM

Thank you so much Galknowing!


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: rmliebeck on June 4, 2008, 02:15:13 PM

Due to an uncontrollable error, someone on go daddy swiped our domain name. Our new address is

www.blueridgeparanormal.com

Also check out


myspace.com/blueridgeparanormal



Thanks,


Richard Liebeck


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: AussieAndy on June 13, 2008, 04:31:51 PM

Hi Josh/Guys,

I have always believed in the paranormal or occurrences that go beyond the 'norm' having experienced a few odd things myself, however as you would agree it is always best to start out a skeptic and work through the rational explanations first.

After having a look at the photo one could draw two conclusions a) The photo has ben faked or as some have suggested simply shows a real life human being or b) The photo shows a legitimate ghost or has at least managed to capture an image from the past in a way that we are yet to understand.

If Mr Liebeck was asking for money for his picture or was somehow trying to draw attention to a money making project (eg. The Peckman Alien video which I think we can all agree sounds fairly dubious to say the least), then we would have a right to question the photos authenticity, not to mention the photographer as well.

Be that as it may however I can't imagine why someone would do themselves such a great disservice by faking a photo or submitting a photo of an obvious 'non-event' if they are so interested in the field and have nothing to gain in the process. Joshua doesn't sound like the kind of guy who would be easily swayed to call a ghost photo amazing either. The bottom line is I think rational answers are a good place to start however I think motive and character also play a big part. I'm leaning towards the photo being genuine at this stage.

By the way Joshua I only heard of you and your work in Australia by listening to coast to coast am and I think you are doing some great things in the world of the paranormal. Keep it up.

AussieAndy :)


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: admin on June 13, 2008, 05:31:54 PM

Thanks Andy! Indeed, this photo sincerely impresses me and should be seriously considered.


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Title: Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
Post by: Truth Seeker on July 8, 2008, 06:56:34 PM

Its amazing how many hits this subject has generated.
Joshua, Blue Ridge Paranormal appreciates the attention you have given Richards photo.



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