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   Author  Topic: Amazing New "Ghost" Photo  (Read 51153 times)
Donastices
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Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
« Reply #20 on: August 3, 2007, 08:09:45 AM »
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Mr. Warren:
      Thank you for your thoughtful reply.  It appears that we (along with many researchers) are going to disagree on what the plasma state actually is, and what phenomena exemplify it.  So, I'd like to turn briefly to another angle in connection with it.  Let's assume that ghosts are plasma manifestations.  How can/does any energy source activate a deceased person (or even pets that are frequently reported as ghosts) to reappear in a plasma state?  And often possess/replicate  human characteristics such as voice recordings, dress, behavior, etc? 

Donastices 
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Joshua P. Warren - L.E.M.U.R.
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Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
« Reply #21 on: August 3, 2007, 04:16:23 PM »
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Hi Donastices,

Having worked in the broadcast industry for many years, I often hear about broadcasts being received that were originally made decades before. Apparently, these electromagnetic signatures are still "bouncing around" within the ionosphere, somehow retaining enough original properties to carry pieces of an organized signal. Granted, these are all anecdotal, and I doubt a serious study has ever been done. However, if this phenomenon exists, as loosely described, I wonder if something similar could occur with any electromagnetic signal, including the strong ones produced, and reflected by, our bodies.

We don't fully understand the nature of time. However, we know it is a flexible thing, and that the specious present is a fluid illusion, beyond true definition. If incidents from the past are layered behind the specious present, then we may be able to glimpse it, or record it, when those layers are disturbed by anything from a solar flare to a geomagnetic pulse (hence EMF meter anomalies, though we can't determine cause and effect). As analogy: the lines of force emanating from a magnet are invisible. However, when the magnet is placed below a paper covered in iron filings, we suddenly have a crude visualization--a physical representation of the non-physical force. It might be that buried time layers are usually invisible and non-physical. But when additional energy is supplied, photons and/or ions reflect from those time layers, giving us a temporary, translucent partial image--the so-called apparition.

Keep in mind that a "soul" or "spirit," however defined, is not necessary to create a ghost. We have ghosts of inanimate objects like ships and cars; stagecoaches and the horses pulling them. While some phantoms may indeed by conscious, interactive, aware individuals (based on eyewitness testimony), many of them clearly are not. They are truly imprints from the past, and we don't understand how they are stored or retrieved. But it seems mother nature may have a grand way of recording and replaying information on a vast, complex scale, similar to what we can easily do with our most basic technologies.

This is all speculation, of course. I don't pretend to know all the answers. If I did, ghosts would no longer be mysterious or paranormal. But I could write on this subject forever. And, having written books about all this, I fear I may write another here if I don't stop now. 
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Joshua P. Warren - L.E.M.U.R.
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Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
« Reply #22 on: August 3, 2007, 04:24:58 PM »
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I have posted a new opinion poll regarding the Liebeck photo.

Please participate at:

http://users.boardnation.com/~shadowboxent/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=1558
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Charles
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Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
« Reply #23 on: August 3, 2007, 08:51:00 PM »
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Josh,

I apologize if my comments appeared condescending or insensitive.  That was not my intention.  I have spent the past six months in classes being trained to teach in an online, virtual high school environment in which all instruction and communication is by email and chat room.  With words at a premium in the virtual classroom, communication must be direct and unambiguous.  You may have misinterpreted that straightforwardness in my message as an attempt to stifle debate.  You know better.

In principle, you abandoned Occam’s Razor when you chose to use the word “Ghost” in the title of your post.  Even recognizing the concession to euphemism embodied in the use of “quotes”, your use of the word itself was presumptive and prematurely judgmental.  With that word, you prejudicially imprinted a desired conclusion on the minds of the readers, suggesting that the determination of its nature had already been made.  Even the photographer was not willing to declare the phenomenon to be a ghost.

You could have avoided that misstep by using a scientifically objective description such as “photographic anomaly” instead of “ghost”.  Your target audience would not have been as passionately stirred by that expression, but it would have been a more accurate assessment of what was and is known about the phenomenon.  Some non-objective web sites with conjectural bias might have described the anomaly as a photo of an angel or of a demon or a cloaked alien or even as an image of Christ returning.  None of those would be any less accurate than describing it as a ghost.

Regarding plasma, it takes various forms.  But they are all forms of ionized gas.  It might be super-hot like the million-degree form in a star.  It could be an electrical discharge like lightning or Saint Elmo’s fire or the Brown Mountain Lights, if your experiments on that are correct.  But regardless of the form, there is no scientifically defensible justification for linking plasmas to ghosts.  In fact, there is no data to even defend the existence of ghosts as real phenomena, either as the un-transitioned souls of the dead (the overwhelmingly popular belief) or as transitory spectral images bleeding through during collisions of parallel membranes in the multiverse (a more modern hypothesis from M-theory).  All evidence of ghosts is speculative and anecdotal.  That does not mean ghosts do not exist.  It means we don’t know one way or the other.  Belief in their existence is a matter of faith, like the existence God.

For what it’s worth, plasma does not make up the majority of our universe.  That honor has recently been awarded to something named “dark matter”, for want of a better name.  Based upon measurements of the expansion of our universe, it makes up 99% of the universe.  It is invisible and undetectable.  We know nothing about it except its influence upon the rate of expansion of our universe.  We may never know what it is.

As far as the “imprint” theory of ghosts, we have been over that before.  Until someone can provide evidence of exactly “what” is imprinted on “what”, that whole hypothesis is a specious red herring.  There is no known form of energy that “imprints” anything on the fabric of space.  The closest we can get is the fact that matter warps space to produce a 4th dimensional dimple to generate what we perceive as a gravitational force (if one accepts General Relativity).  But that might also be only a convenient analogy if M-theory and Supergravity is correct.

And contrary to the urban legends, there are no radio broadcasts bouncing around from the past or the future being detected today.  It makes a good movie plot, but bad science.  Steer clear of bad science.  She is a deceitful mistress.

As far as the anomaly on the film, it might be hard to ever know what it is, if anything at all.  It was a transitory event.  We can speculate.  It could be an optical artifact associated with the lens, the camera, the electronics, or the atmosphere.  In situations like this, we can’t trust our eyes (consider mirages) or our brains (good old reliable pareidolia) or our equipment (optical aberrations, digital hiccups).  But Parsimony says “ghost” is one of the least plausible hypotheses, considering that we would first have to assume that ghosts really exist.  If I had to bet, I would put my money on an optical phenomenon associated with convective heating or atmospheric phenomena.

I have not yet read your new assessment.  I shall.
« Last Edit: August 3, 2007, 08:59:32 PM by Charles » Logged

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Donastices
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Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
« Reply #24 on: August 4, 2007, 09:16:02 AM »
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Charles:
      I read with great interest your comments on the recent phenomena being discussed by yourself, J.W. and me.  In your latest comments to J.W. you mentioned "M theory."  Do you have time to send me a brief clarification on this?  Thanks.

Donastices
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Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
« Reply #25 on: August 4, 2007, 09:41:27 AM »
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Mr. Warren:
      I am enjoying your discussions with Charles, and I do appreciate your responding to me so completely with answers to my questions.  I hope you won't mind another.  I do have to question much of the material in your most recent response, but wish to continue inquiring and seeking advice and opinions.  I get the impression from my own experiences and research, that ghost sightings are very common ... by others.  I have visited numerous allegededly haunted sites and never had a supernatural experience.  The frequency with which these phenomena are reported would seem to indicate that conditions are continually right for the expression of some kind of ghost.  (Personal anecdotes, books listing sites, television reports, etc.).  Yet the nature of the physical conditions causing ghosts, that you indicated in your response, suggest that such sightings would be most infrequent.  Is there some sort of location technique, source, master listing which would result in locating these sites (especially in my home state (Indiana) or contiguous states, where I would be LIKELY to encounter a paranormal phenomenon?  Frankly, I'm getting tired of "running out" to investigate and finding nothing.  Or do I have to go to English castles?  Thanks again.

Donastices
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Joe
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Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
« Reply #26 on: August 5, 2007, 03:21:38 AM »
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Donastices-

Welcome. Your comments regarding non-experiences in allegedly haunted locations tends to support Dr. Andrew Nichols theories on ghostly phenomena. He believes that "ghosts" are mostly subjective experiences created by the mind psychically. Some people experience things regularly and some not at all. That's the jist of it; he has many ideas about supernatural phenomena (crisis apparitions, precognition, place memory, etc.). His book, Ghost Detective, has several interesting cases cited.

I feel it would be worth your while to look into his research. His ideas aren't very popular among many paranormal enthusiasts, but it is refreshing to get a different viewpoint. Something to ponder.

-Joe
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Donastices
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Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
« Reply #27 on: August 5, 2007, 10:53:23 AM »
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Joe:
      Thanks for your response to my most recent posting to J. Warren.  You did satisfy my inquiry to some extent.  (The reason why I'm not finding anything on "hunts" is because my mind isn't conjuring up images).  I'll try to locate the research you mentioned, but I've already found a mass of similar material in Psychological Abstracts.  However, I'm still open to investigating and  how others think.  Some in a local group of paranormal enthusiasts believe strongly in ouija board activity and "residual" energy as indicative of the existence of ghosts.  As I have no confidence in these concepts, I need a "haunted" site that is regular enough in producing phenomena to the extent that I can question my own nature in failing to perceive any.

Donastices

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Charles
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Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
« Reply #28 on: August 6, 2007, 03:32:07 AM »
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Quote:
...you mentioned "M theory."  Do you have time to send me a brief clarification on this?

You may have already found this description of M-theory, but in case not…

A year or so ago, NOVA on PBS did a good series on string theory, which is the basis of M-theory.  Here is the PBS link where you can watch the 3-hour series in 8-minute segments:

The Elegant Universe
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Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
« Reply #29 on: August 6, 2007, 10:31:25 AM »
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Charles:
      Thanks so much for those sources.  I read the Wikipedia source and, when I have time, I'll go over the others, the mini-videos on string theories and related topics.  As it stands, I see room for many to attempt to relate ghost occurrences to the various dimensions and matter configurations of these developing theories.  But, I'd trust explanations of apparitions vs. M and string theories only if they came from those (academic and theoretical physicists) who really study the physical world and its limits.

Donastices
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Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
« Reply #30 on: August 6, 2007, 08:34:01 PM »
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I don’t know if this will add any validity to this photo but if you’ll notice in the mist photo that  the Sun seems to be setting  to the left.  If you look at the tree line,  you’ll  see the shadow going from left to right.  Now if you look at the soldier photo, you can also see the shadow.  Now if you notice the soldier has no apparent shadow. 
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Joseph000
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Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
« Reply #31 on: August 6, 2007, 09:22:47 PM »
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Some comments I made about this photo on another site.

Quote:
Now why would a ghost travel along the same path that probably was not there 150 years ago ? Maybe it was a hiker afterall.

Statement: I was too hot to wear long pants etc.
Reply:

Quote:
Maybe the reason this person was dressed the way they were was too keep ticks off of them and avoid other biting bugs.

Claim made: nobody was there
Reply:

Quote:
Maybe your friends memory is faulty and there was somebody walking down the path.

Claim. It's a Ghost
Yes, it could be a ghost, a space alien or a time traveler, or one of the Three Stooges, it's impossible to come to any conclusion with one apparently bad quality photo. Predisposing a conclusion is a parochial path no one should walk.

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mister_mobius
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Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
« Reply #32 on: August 7, 2007, 12:09:26 AM »
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JPW mentioned odd radio waves picked up with no logical explanation as a description of an energy manifeatation that did not have a rational explanation.  I suggest anyone who is interested look at this further and do some google time on long delay echos or LDEs.  The stories from hams, commercial radio and TV are just amazing and is no possible explanation for the activity that holds any logic.  Sometimes happening 50 years late.  Art Bell broadcast an event where a carrier was retrurning to a ham sender who even was sliding frequency after 20 secs with almost no loss to his total amazment.  In another example was after several mins.  There is no logical explanation for where this energy could have gone traveling at the speed of light and come back with the levels intact and were only received by the senders in most instances.  Many times Hams living miles away were unable to pick up the transmissions.  This has been observed since the start of radio broadcasting and remains a mystery.  In Texas a TV station off the air for 51 years was once picked up and a full nights broadcast was recorded at a persons home.  There are no logical explanations for such as this.



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Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
« Reply #33 on: August 7, 2007, 12:13:15 AM »
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In a room where the ParanormalPC was left where activity had been witnessed.... with no ventalation the PC recorded a EMF event and a drop in the rooms temp almost instantly of 14 degrees while the activity was occuring.  This would seem to suggest the stories of a room suddenly getting cold when a ghost is manifesting have validity.

I have so far seen no logical explanations for even how ball lightening holds its form and has been seen to stay intact in rare instances for as long as 3 mins.  The source of the energy that sustains this is less then obvious.

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Charles
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Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
« Reply #34 on: August 7, 2007, 06:32:13 AM »
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Quote:
JPW mentioned odd radio waves picked up with no logical explanation as a description of an energy manifeatation that did not have a rational explanation.  I suggest anyone who is interested look at this further and do some google time on long delay echos or LDEs.  The stories from hams, commercial radio and TV are just amazing and is no possible explanation for the activity that holds any logic….Many times Hams living miles away were unable to pick up the transmissions.

HAM radio operates primarily by the reflection of the waves off the ionosphere rather than line-of-sight.  At the 5 MHz frequency of those waves, that layer is very reflective, and the waves bounce like light off a mirror, sometimes for thousands of miles.  It is possible that the waves could make several reflections.  But the chance of a signal bouncing around for hours or days is virtually zero.  The energy is dissipated with every bounce, since not all of the wave is reflected – some leaks through.  That’s why you can’t trap light in a mirrored box.  For AM, FM, and TV waves, the ionosphere is more disruptive than reflective, though one layer does reflect some FM frequencies.  But again, the signal would not hang around long.

Quote:
In Texas a TV station off the air for 51 years was once picked up and a full nights broadcast was recorded at a persons home.

I am very suspicious of this story.  It has an aroma of urban legend.  Who validated the authenticity of this claim?  Or do we just take the word of the “person” who had the recording?
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Joseph000
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Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
« Reply #35 on: August 7, 2007, 08:03:33 AM »
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Quote from: mister_mobius on August  7, 2007, 12:13:15 AM   

I have so far seen no logical explanations for even how ball lightening holds its form and has been seen to stay intact in rare instances for as long as 3 mins.  The source of the energy that sustains this is less then obvious.


Hmm, so you can't find a logical explanation for ball lightning. I wonder if you tried. Here's one.
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/24175
and another
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s520317.htm
« Last Edit: August 7, 2007, 08:07:11 AM by Joseph000 » Logged
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Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
« Reply #36 on: August 7, 2007, 01:44:59 PM »
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I think this photo is amazing!  Keep up the great work everyone!  If you are ever in Las Vegas...you should visit Bally's hotel...I work the Jubilee! show here.  This hotel was originally the MGM which had a tragic fire around 25 years ago.  There are spirits around. I hope to someday get equipment to prove it.  However those of us who have experienced  don't need proof.
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Charles
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Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
« Reply #37 on: August 7, 2007, 07:15:13 PM »
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Quote:
There are spirits around. I hope to someday get equipment to prove it.

People have been saying this for over one hundred years.  But no one has had any luck yet.  Why is that ?
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Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
« Reply #38 on: August 8, 2007, 02:11:42 AM »
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Quote from: Donastices on August  5, 2007, 10:53:23 AM   

(The reason why I'm not finding anything on "hunts" is because my mind isn't conjuring up images)


Not in a way that you are imagining it. He believes that some of these images are objectively seen by others as well, but rather than being spirits, they are manifestations of one's own mind or a view of what is know as "place memory" (commonly refered to as a residual haunting). Some people are more sensitive/in-tune/psychic than others and have more experiences. If you have the opportunity to hear him speak, then please do so.
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Re:Amazing New "Ghost" Photo
« Reply #39 on: August 8, 2007, 03:32:15 AM »
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TV's Biggest Mystery
Texas Station Signal Seen in England -- Three Years After It Went Off the Air!
This article appeared in TV Guide, apparently the issue of April 30-May 6, 1955.
Is there an intelligence somewhere in outer space which is beaming TV signals at the earth?

Or can television signals from Texas wander around the ionosphere for more than three years and then be picked up in England?

These are two of the questions with which engineers are wrestling in Houston, Tex., and in Britain as they delve into the mystery of KLEE-TV. And these are the facts.

1. At 3:30 PM, British Summer Time, September 14, 1954, Charles W. Bratley, of London picked up the call letters KLEE-TV on his television set. Later that month, and several times since, they have been seen by engineers at Atlantic Electronics, Ltd., Lancaster, England.

2. The call letters KLEE-TV have not been transmitted since July 1950, when the Houston station changed it letters to KPRC-TV.

3. A check of the world's television stations confirms the fact that there is not now and never has been another KLEE-TV.

Paul Huhndorff, chief engineer of KPRC-TV, to whom the Britishers sent their report, has no explanation. He contends it is not unusual for signals to be received hundreds or even thousands of miles from the transmitter. KPRC-TV [and the old KLEE-TV] has been picked up at Halifax, Nova Scotia, 2000 miles away.

Such freak reception occurs when signals shoot off into space, strike an atmospheric layer known as the ionosphere, and rebound to earth. However, the reception of such pictures has been as nearly instantaneous as electronics permit. A time lapse of 30 seconds would be a cause for wonder.

Members of the old KLEE-TV staff have identified pictures of the signals as looking like the standard call-letter slide they used. Engineer Huhndorff, waiting for more information from England, reserves final opinion. Meanwhile, he offers three theories.

1. The whole business is a hoax perpetuated by some amateur TV operator. This he discounts on the grounds of his fellow engineers' integrity.

2. The signals may have rebounded from a celestial object a light year and a half away. This would be a mathematical miracle if it happened once. Several times is just too fantastic for belief.

3. Some intelligence in outer space has received the signal and has re-transmitted it in the hope of communicating with this planet.

Those are the theories. We suggest the readers take their pick or invent their own.

-------------------------------

Maybe myth... but i can google and find a lot of solid reports from hams of LDEs that go up to 15 mins.

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